Shooter.556
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Re: SICK SICK SICK of El84s
EVH 5150iii.. You'll fall in love..
EVH 5150iii.. You'll fall in love..
SICK SICK SICK of El84s
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Re: SICK SICK SICK of El84s
The Ruby STRs seem to be good reliable modern el34s, been having issues of crackle/pops with jj el34s for a year, their 6ca7s im using at the moment though. Liked the 7s when they were new, not liking them as they start to wear down.
Speaking of el84 amps, the demos of the mesa mini Mark 5 sound fantastic, never expected that.
The Ruby STRs seem to be good reliable modern el34s, been having issues of crackle/pops with jj el34s for a year, their 6ca7s im using at the moment though. Liked the 7s when they were new, not liking them as they start to wear down.
Speaking of el84 amps, the demos of the mesa mini Mark 5 sound fantastic, never expected that.
Re: SICK SICK SICK of El84s
I agree!! I like my pv classic 30 for what it does, but i prefer an amp with some gain. They have made improvements with alot of the lunchbox amps, but any Ive heard still dont give the tone a crave.. I dont see how they think they can duplicate the sound of a El34 or other amp using EL84s. Why doesnt someone make a small amp with one el34 or 6l6??
I agree!! I like my pv classic 30 for what it does, but i prefer an amp with some gain. They have made improvements with alot of the lunchbox amps, but any Ive heard still dont give the tone a crave.. I dont see how they think they can duplicate the sound of a El34 or other amp using EL84s. Why doesnt someone make a small amp with one el34 or 6l6??
allbutromeo
Well-known member
Re: SICK SICK SICK of El84s
The briefly made, slightly over priced Marshall SL5 pushed 5w out of a single EL34 into a closedback Vintage 30, it sounds phenomenal
The briefly made, slightly over priced Marshall SL5 pushed 5w out of a single EL34 into a closedback Vintage 30, it sounds phenomenal
Re: SICK SICK SICK of El84s
yeah. perfect example. I dont understand why they dont all (or at least more) do this..
yeah. perfect example. I dont understand why they dont all (or at least more) do this..
Re: SICK SICK SICK of El84s
I gotta say, after careful consideration, I think I kinda prefer the el84 sound personally...
Mesa/Boogie Mini Rectifier Vs Dual Rectifier Comp…: http://youtu.be/DXY53F03-lk
I gotta say, after careful consideration, I think I kinda prefer the el84 sound personally...
Mesa/Boogie Mini Rectifier Vs Dual Rectifier Comp…: http://youtu.be/DXY53F03-lk
Re: SICK SICK SICK of El84s
I havent heard or played the mini rectumfryer. I hadnt heard a whole lot of praise heaped on it either, so I didnt really delve into it. Tho Im sure, with it being a Mesa, its a good product.
I havent heard or played the mini rectumfryer. I hadnt heard a whole lot of praise heaped on it either, so I didnt really delve into it. Tho Im sure, with it being a Mesa, its a good product.
dystrust
Well-known member
Re: SICK SICK SICK of El84s
The Mini Recto rocks. It's a different beast from the full size version, but it's one of the coolest and most versatile lunchbox amps I've come across. About once a week I find myself GAS'ing for a Mini Rectoverb when I'm not 100% sure how my H&K Edition Tube is working out.
The Mini Recto rocks. It's a different beast from the full size version, but it's one of the coolest and most versatile lunchbox amps I've come across. About once a week I find myself GAS'ing for a Mini Rectoverb when I'm not 100% sure how my H&K Edition Tube is working out.
Myaccount876
Amira-Maker
Re: SICK SICK SICK of El84s
I really think saying "bigger tubes = bigger tone" and claiming that EL84's always sound thin and compressed in the midrange is very misleading. The sound comes more from the voicing and design of the amp rather than the type of power tube. For example, think of the most popular EL84 amps, like Vox; they're pretty much all class A with no negative feedback. Fenders and Marshalls tend to be class AB with negative feedback, and this completely changes the type of coloration from the power section of an amp. Just saying amps that use x power tubes sound like y is way oversimplifying things. Most of those lunchbox amps don't really differ that much in design for the power section, and it a pretty traditional design. You can absolutely attribute the sonic characteristics of an amp based upon its collective design, but only looking at what type of power tubes are being used is like looking at just a car's engine - ignoring every other important aspect of the car - and saying it'll run a certain way. It's just a huge oversimplification.
I really think saying "bigger tubes = bigger tone" and claiming that EL84's always sound thin and compressed in the midrange is very misleading. The sound comes more from the voicing and design of the amp rather than the type of power tube. For example, think of the most popular EL84 amps, like Vox; they're pretty much all class A with no negative feedback. Fenders and Marshalls tend to be class AB with negative feedback, and this completely changes the type of coloration from the power section of an amp. Just saying amps that use x power tubes sound like y is way oversimplifying things. Most of those lunchbox amps don't really differ that much in design for the power section, and it a pretty traditional design. You can absolutely attribute the sonic characteristics of an amp based upon its collective design, but only looking at what type of power tubes are being used is like looking at just a car's engine - ignoring every other important aspect of the car - and saying it'll run a certain way. It's just a huge oversimplification.
Edgecrusher
Well-known member
Re: SICK SICK SICK of El84s
Winning right here... Most lunch boxes have 2 goals in mind. Low volume power tube saturation and be cheap. Both of those things lend themselves to having cheesy power supplies. THe transformers in most lunch boxes are pathetic. They design a circuit to clip off lows so that it doesnt get flubbly when trying to saturate at any volume and bam you have the bright toppy little EL84 boxes that are so common.
Now once in awhile you get on that isnt made like this. If you check out the trannies in like a MK V 25 they are pretty stout compared to whats in like a dark terror. This means the MK25 wont saturate as soon but it will push more low end and doesnt come apart as much at high volume. Depending on the sound you are after this could be good or bad.
But really it is the circuit they are in.
Winning right here... Most lunch boxes have 2 goals in mind. Low volume power tube saturation and be cheap. Both of those things lend themselves to having cheesy power supplies. THe transformers in most lunch boxes are pathetic. They design a circuit to clip off lows so that it doesnt get flubbly when trying to saturate at any volume and bam you have the bright toppy little EL84 boxes that are so common.
Now once in awhile you get on that isnt made like this. If you check out the trannies in like a MK V 25 they are pretty stout compared to whats in like a dark terror. This means the MK25 wont saturate as soon but it will push more low end and doesnt come apart as much at high volume. Depending on the sound you are after this could be good or bad.
But really it is the circuit they are in.
Re: SICK SICK SICK of El84s
I don't think the power tubes make a huge difference personally... At least nothing a minor eq tweak wouldn't fix... Based on all the YouTube vids I've seen anyway...
5 Minutes with Amp Tubes - Clean - Shootout / Com…: http://youtu.be/1OSBSI64FEM
I don't think the power tubes make a huge difference personally... At least nothing a minor eq tweak wouldn't fix... Based on all the YouTube vids I've seen anyway...
5 Minutes with Amp Tubes - Clean - Shootout / Com…: http://youtu.be/1OSBSI64FEM
Myaccount876
Amira-Maker
Re: SICK SICK SICK of El84s
I have an experience to attest to that. I was at a recording studio, and I was playing through an AC30, but it was the handwired head and cab version, which IMO is *really* worth the up-charge over the Custom Classic series, and if someone doesn't like the HW's tube rectifier/not being able to use the standby switch they can just throw in a solid state rectifier designed to go in a tube rectifier socket. But another difference in the handwired AC30 heads vs the Custom Classics is the transformers. That amp was dimed and was just 'balls-to-the-wall', shaking the room and had more than enough low end on tap. It has EL84s, but it is a completely different amp from the EL84 lunchboxes - different transformers, still class A/no negative feedback but way more headroom, WAY different preamp section, etc. It's not the type of tube, but the whole amp in general. The cabinet was two Alnico Blues with a fairly large opening in the back, which allows even more low end to come out of the amp through the back. Now take my Vox Night Train - it's not really even close, but I don't expect it to be. I have it when I need the lunchbox sound, otherwise I'm using my Bassman 70.
I have an experience to attest to that. I was at a recording studio, and I was playing through an AC30, but it was the handwired head and cab version, which IMO is *really* worth the up-charge over the Custom Classic series, and if someone doesn't like the HW's tube rectifier/not being able to use the standby switch they can just throw in a solid state rectifier designed to go in a tube rectifier socket. But another difference in the handwired AC30 heads vs the Custom Classics is the transformers. That amp was dimed and was just 'balls-to-the-wall', shaking the room and had more than enough low end on tap. It has EL84s, but it is a completely different amp from the EL84 lunchboxes - different transformers, still class A/no negative feedback but way more headroom, WAY different preamp section, etc. It's not the type of tube, but the whole amp in general. The cabinet was two Alnico Blues with a fairly large opening in the back, which allows even more low end to come out of the amp through the back. Now take my Vox Night Train - it's not really even close, but I don't expect it to be. I have it when I need the lunchbox sound, otherwise I'm using my Bassman 70.
Phantasmagoria
watch where you point that sabre
Re: SICK SICK SICK of El84s
Love my Chinese Goldea Rex 3200 15 watter...best $150 I ever spent on an amp. Man ..I could repeat that a 100 times! It has all the low end I need (& way more when needed). Headroom's through the roof. Just gets bigger, tighter & sicker as you turn it up..like a sledgehammer haha. I've played most of the usual little lunchboxes out there ...except the new 6505 mini (not really interested in that) & the Mini Mark V..which is a killer sounding little amp for sure (..at least from the video's/demo's) but none that I can think of have had the weight, power & guts this little beast has. It's got a totally different flavour than my other (bigger) amps have...not sure if that's the EL84's or not ...but that's where the difference ends. It absolutely does NOT sound thinner or smaller at all ...& when cranked, fills the room as well as those other amps do at high enough volume to make my ears bleed. It even has awesome cleans (Metallica type..not Fendery)..& a sweet juicy crunch thing going..
In the end it's a different flavour....is it because of the EL84's..maybe..maybe not. I actually don't care ..it's a bit wetter/juicier..has its own really sweet round fat tubey thing going on that sets it apart for me and that's what I think makes it special/different. There are some amps that really excite you everytime you plug in & this is one of them..always a joy to play...whether metal/shred, blues or just rock 'n roll!
Love my Chinese Goldea Rex 3200 15 watter...best $150 I ever spent on an amp. Man ..I could repeat that a 100 times! It has all the low end I need (& way more when needed). Headroom's through the roof. Just gets bigger, tighter & sicker as you turn it up..like a sledgehammer haha. I've played most of the usual little lunchboxes out there ...except the new 6505 mini (not really interested in that) & the Mini Mark V..which is a killer sounding little amp for sure (..at least from the video's/demo's) but none that I can think of have had the weight, power & guts this little beast has. It's got a totally different flavour than my other (bigger) amps have...not sure if that's the EL84's or not ...but that's where the difference ends. It absolutely does NOT sound thinner or smaller at all ...& when cranked, fills the room as well as those other amps do at high enough volume to make my ears bleed. It even has awesome cleans (Metallica type..not Fendery)..& a sweet juicy crunch thing going..
In the end it's a different flavour....is it because of the EL84's..maybe..maybe not. I actually don't care ..it's a bit wetter/juicier..has its own really sweet round fat tubey thing going on that sets it apart for me and that's what I think makes it special/different. There are some amps that really excite you everytime you plug in & this is one of them..always a joy to play...whether metal/shred, blues or just rock 'n roll!
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DKSEARS
New member
Re: SICK SICK SICK of El84s
I'd have to agree with this. My first tube amp was one of the old class A Crate 15 watt Vintage Club amps. I could never really get along with it and swore it was the EL-84 tubes. So, I traded it to a guy for something and he got the most beautiful sounds out of it. I played around with modelers and various preamp / amp configurations for a few years, but was never satisfied with my tone with out the tube amp. I found a place up near Columbus, OH (about 2 hr drive from me) that was carrying Soldano amps. I tried a couple out and settled on an Astroverb 1x12 combo, which ironically ran on 84's, but it has one of my favorite sounds. It was my primary amp for years until I started to want a little more sophisticated with my setup and start running an effects loop which it is lacking along with clean headroom. Now it's my backup and my amp for around the house.
My primary amp is a custom build by a guy in Cincinnati, that set me up with an amp that I can run with 6V6's at about 20 watts, EL-34's at about 40 watts by simply swapping out the tubes. Both configurations have that Marshall-y sound to them.
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I'd have to agree with this. My first tube amp was one of the old class A Crate 15 watt Vintage Club amps. I could never really get along with it and swore it was the EL-84 tubes. So, I traded it to a guy for something and he got the most beautiful sounds out of it. I played around with modelers and various preamp / amp configurations for a few years, but was never satisfied with my tone with out the tube amp. I found a place up near Columbus, OH (about 2 hr drive from me) that was carrying Soldano amps. I tried a couple out and settled on an Astroverb 1x12 combo, which ironically ran on 84's, but it has one of my favorite sounds. It was my primary amp for years until I started to want a little more sophisticated with my setup and start running an effects loop which it is lacking along with clean headroom. Now it's my backup and my amp for around the house.
My primary amp is a custom build by a guy in Cincinnati, that set me up with an amp that I can run with 6V6's at about 20 watts, EL-34's at about 40 watts by simply swapping out the tubes. Both configurations have that Marshall-y sound to them.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Lucy Diamond
Well-known member
Re: SICK SICK SICK of El84s
I was just gonna say..."This kat has Orange written all over him."
OP...I think EL34s are your friend.
\m/,
I was just gonna say..."This kat has Orange written all over him."
OP...I think EL34s are your friend.
\m/,
skyydogg01
Active member
Re: SICK SICK SICK of El84s
The Blackstar HT Studio 20 uses EL34s and I'm quite pleased with it!
The Blackstar HT Studio 20 uses EL34s and I'm quite pleased with it!
Snake Aces
Singlecut Slut
Re: SICK SICK SICK of El84s
+1 to Myaccount876 and Edgecrusher for pointing out it has a lot to do with the design of the circuit and less to do with the tubes.
+1 to Myaccount876 and Edgecrusher for pointing out it has a lot to do with the design of the circuit and less to do with the tubes.
JeffB
Let it B
Re: SICK SICK SICK of El84s
If you guys honestly think different tubes dont sound different when pushed then you all are tone deaf, sorry...why bother with different pickups, speakers, pedals or strings? They all sound pretty much the same, right?
Even in the exact same circuit, like an Avatar 18w, there is a marked difference in the sound of the 6v6 and el84 version. Or old 800 series Marshalls with 6550 vs. El34s.
If you guys honestly think different tubes dont sound different when pushed then you all are tone deaf, sorry...why bother with different pickups, speakers, pedals or strings? They all sound pretty much the same, right?
Even in the exact same circuit, like an Avatar 18w, there is a marked difference in the sound of the 6v6 and el84 version. Or old 800 series Marshalls with 6550 vs. El34s.
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