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Anybody with experience in swapping stock preamp tubes on Randall Diavlo amp?

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  • Anybody with experience in swapping stock preamp tubes on Randall Diavlo amp?

    So, I have a Randall Diavlo RD40C. The thing is: I have three guitars all equipped with hot pickups (Black Winter, Nazgul and PATB-2). The interesting thing is that on the OD channel Black Winter and Nazgul both sound fizzy/mushy on lower strings, while the Parallel Axis Distortion is crystal clear (so was Duncan Designed 102/JB PATB replaced). The fizzyness/mushyness is only healed with the activated amp booster or an OD pedal. So far so good, but it's not what I expect from Nazgul and Black Winter, since they are marketed as tighty-tight.

    Okay, since PATB-2 interacts really good with the Diavlo, the mushyness is not a matter of high output. Am I right that my amp may emphasize certain frequences in which all three PUs differ and it can get too much of a good thing (more mids and treble on BW and Nazgul, less thereof on PATB)? Or do the tubes just distort bad (four Ruby 12AX7A)?

    Long story short: Can a preamp tube swap solve this issue with BW and Nazgul? Any opinion is apperciated, also from someone with a different amp but the same tone issues!

  • #2
    Re: Anybody with experience in swapping stock preamp tubes on Randall Diavlo amp?

    Chinese 12AX7s are probably the best choice for a high-gain amp's preamp, so that's not your problem.

    Most high gain amps are going to need a mid-humped, slightly compressed, input signal to remain tight. That's exactly what a tubescreamer or the Diavlo's built-in boost does. Just use the boost, or the pedal.

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    • #3
      Re: Anybody with experience in swapping stock preamp tubes on Randall Diavlo amp?

      I agree. I don’t think a tube swap will give you what you want.
      I use a BB Preamp with the level at unity, gain on “0” and use the bass and treble to tweak what I want to hear frequency-wise. It tightens it up nicely.

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      • #4
        Re: Anybody with experience in swapping stock preamp tubes on Randall Diavlo amp?

        Originally posted by Cynical View Post
        Chinese 12AX7s are probably the best choice for a high-gain amp's preamp, so that's not your problem.

        Most high gain amps are going to need a mid-humped, slightly compressed, input signal to remain tight. That's exactly what a tubescreamer or the Diavlo's built-in boost does. Just use the boost, or the pedal.
        Thanks, Cynical. I did some research and found that these rubys have good reviews indeed. I have a SD 805 overdrive and the Randall boost is also very useful, so the problem is of course not that I can't get any good tones at all. It's only weird that Nazgul and BW don't deliver without additional compression. I thought they were already compressed as f**k.

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        • #5
          Re: Anybody with experience in swapping stock preamp tubes on Randall Diavlo amp?

          Originally posted by Gtrjunior View Post
          I agree. I don’t think a tube swap will give you what you want.
          I use a BB Preamp with the level at unity, gain on “0” and use the bass and treble to tweak what I want to hear frequency-wise. It tightens it up nicely.
          Thank you too!

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          • #6
            Re: Anybody with experience in swapping stock preamp tubes on Randall Diavlo amp?

            Originally posted by BleedingFingertips View Post
            Thanks, Cynical. I did some research and found that these rubys have good reviews indeed. I have a SD 805 overdrive and the Randall boost is also very useful, so the problem is of course not that I can't get any good tones at all. It's only weird that Nazgul and BW don't deliver without additional compression. I thought they were already compressed as f**k.
            Compression alone frequently isn't enough. You also want that mid-hump'd EQ. It's generally bad to hit the front end of an amp with too much bass or treble.

            Also, no pickup is really very compressed compared to what a Tubescreamer-like boost will do.

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            • #7
              Re: Anybody with experience in swapping stock preamp tubes on Randall Diavlo amp?

              Originally posted by Cynical View Post
              Compression alone frequently isn't enough. You also want that mid-hump'd EQ. It's generally bad to hit the front end of an amp with too much bass or treble.

              Also, no pickup is really very compressed compared to what a Tubescreamer-like boost will do.
              I think I buy it. But how come that Parallel Axis Distortion is not fizzy without TS/booster? It is least mid humped among my humbuckers. Seems that SD eq curves for Humbuckers don't make any sense lol

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              • #8
                Re: Anybody with experience in swapping stock preamp tubes on Randall Diavlo amp?

                Originally posted by BleedingFingertips View Post
                I think I buy it. But how come that Parallel Axis Distortion is not fizzy without TS/booster? It is least mid humped among my humbuckers. Seems that SD eq curves for Humbuckers don't make any sense lol
                The BW isn't really mid humped; it's got a fairly extended treble range. You generally don't want that hitting the front end of an amp without having a boost. I've got no experience with the PAD or the Nazgul, so I can't say what those are doing.

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                • #9
                  Re: Anybody with experience in swapping stock preamp tubes on Randall Diavlo amp?

                  I have an RD1H, and I used to have the RD5 combo, so I have experience with the small ones, but not the serious ones like yours, so take this as a grain of salt.

                  I personally find they have this kinda twangy/raspy/attacky voicing to the distortion which I like to smooth out a little by using a warm-sounding boost like my TS808 or Duncan 805 with the treble dialed back a bit. I don't know if that's what you're refering to as fizzyness/mushyness?

                  I also really like a JJ ECC83S in the first position to tame some fizz and kill some boominess inherent to the amp. I also really like the way the mids are voiced on those JJ's for high-gain (I also use one in the first position of my Krank). A friend of mine uses a Tung Sol 12AX7 in the first postion of his RD1H, and that also sounds nice, but that tube is broader-sounding with more bass and treble. Keep in mind that the difference is not night and day, though, and TBH, I find those stock Ruby tubes very nice too.
                  Last edited by Rex_Rocker; 12-13-2017, 05:56 PM.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Anybody with experience in swapping stock preamp tubes on Randall Diavlo amp?

                    Originally posted by Rex_Rocker View Post
                    I have an RD1H, and I used to have the RD5 combo, so I have experience with the small ones, but not the serious ones like yours, so take this as a grain of salt.

                    I personally find they have this kinda twangy/raspy/attacky voicing to the distortion which I like to smooth out a little by using a warm-sounding boost like my TS808 or Duncan 805 with the treble dialed back a bit. I don't know if that's what you're refering to as fizzyness/mushyness?

                    I also really like a JJ ECC83S in the first position to tame some fizz and kill some boominess inherent to the amp. I also really like the way the mids are voiced on those JJ's for high-gain (I also use one in the first position of my Krank). A friend of mine uses a Tung Sol 12AX7 in the first postion of his RD1H, and that also sounds nice, but that tube is broader-sounding with more bass and treble. Keep in mind that the difference is not night and day, though, and TBH, I find those stock Ruby tubes very nice too.
                    Yes, rolling back treble with a pedal seems reasonable. Thanx. I might overreact a bit with suggesting to change tubes now.
                    Last edited by BleedingFingertips; 12-16-2017, 10:20 AM.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Anybody with experience in swapping stock preamp tubes on Randall Diavlo amp?

                      Nah, man. Swapping tubes is fun. It's not super expensive either. It's a cool way to fine-tune the amp to your liking. I also find that these Diavlos are paticularly sensitive to tube changes because they don't have a lot of tube stages that blur into each other. JJ ECC83S is where it's at for me in the first position for these amps (and most other high-gain amps, TBH). YMMV.

                      Oh, and those "custom-design" Randall speakers are worth upgrading, IMO. At least the one on my RD5 combo was terrible. I swapped it for a Celestion 10" Greenback, and it was an instant improvement. When I had the combo turned into a head and ran it into an Orange 1x12, it was even better.
                      Last edited by Rex_Rocker; 12-16-2017, 03:03 PM.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Anybody with experience in swapping stock preamp tubes on Randall Diavlo amp?

                        Originally posted by Rex_Rocker View Post
                        Nah, man. Swapping tubes is fun. It's not super expensive either. It's a cool way to fine-tune the amp to your liking. I also find that these Diavlos are paticularly sensitive to tube changes because they don't have a lot of tube stages that blur into each other. JJ ECC83S is where it's at for me in the first position for these amps (and most other high-gain amps, TBH). YMMV.

                        Oh, and those "custom-design" Randall speakers are worth upgrading, IMO. At least the one on my RD5 combo was terrible. I swapped it for a Celestion 10" Greenback, and it was an instant improvement. When I had the combo turned into a head and ran it into an Orange 1x12, it was even better.
                        Made some notes...

                        BTW, since I never really got this explained anywhere... Eq'uing with an OD pedal before amp or with an eq pedal in a fx loop is not the same as eq'uing ON amp, right? With the amp on-board frequencies you basically control the final output so it makes sense to get the eq curve right before that, no?

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                        • #13
                          Re: Anybody with experience in swapping stock preamp tubes on Randall Diavlo amp?

                          Originally posted by BleedingFingertips View Post
                          Made some notes...

                          BTW, since I never really got this explained anywhere... Eq'uing with an OD pedal before amp or with an eq pedal in a fx loop is not the same as eq'uing ON amp, right? With the amp on-board frequencies you basically control the final output so it makes sense to get the eq curve right before that, no?
                          Sort of. Some amps, most notably the Mesa Marks have an EQ before their gain stages which works like EQing before the amp, but it's rare. Normally, the EQ works during the pre-amp stage, and the resonance/presence knobs are EQs that work on the power amp.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Anybody with experience in swapping stock preamp tubes on Randall Diavlo amp?

                            Originally posted by Cynical View Post
                            Sort of. Some amps, most notably the Mesa Marks have an EQ before their gain stages which works like EQing before the amp, but it's rare. Normally, the EQ works during the pre-amp stage, and the resonance/presence knobs are EQs that work on the power amp.
                            Thanks a lot!

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                            • #15
                              Re: Anybody with experience in swapping stock preamp tubes on Randall Diavlo amp?

                              Yes, the tone stack (the EQ knobs) on Diavlos is post-distortion. If you EQ in your overdrive pedal, you're EQ-ing pre-distortion. If you run the OD pedal in the loop... well... I guess you could try it, but I don't think that'd sound very good, lol.

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