Qestion about tubes for metal.

[Micha]

Hello.
I have a little problem. I play a rocktron voodoo valve preamp with a marshal EL34 100/100 power amp.
The sound is really amazing. He is very rich but not artificial like other rack elements.
It sounsds like a more precise amp head.

The only thing I don't like so much is one frequency in the highs. Whatever I do this frequency is already there. Not that she sounds harsh... But a little bit brittle sounding highs.

I think it's perhaps the typicaly British EL34 touch ?

Anyway.... I play metal (lamb of god, god forbid, pantera, alice in chains stuff .....
I know everybody's here will say "change the tube for 6L6" 😂

But I'm not a big fan of 6L6 ...too dirty Mids and not bluesy enough (I love playing blues and for that the EL34 are awesome. )

After many researches I read that KT77 tubes could be a good alternative for me...EL34 sound with the lows of 6L6 , more nuanced Mids and beautifull highs... Not brittle like EL34's.


So here is my question. What do you think about that. Is here anyone that tried and compare these 3 power tubes?
What do u have to expect?



'Scuse my English.... I'm french and I do my best ^^



Thanks to everyone here.

[Cynical]

Re: Qestion about tubes for metal.

Hello.
I have a little problem. I play a rocktron voodoo valve preamp with a marshal EL34 100/100 power amp.
The sound is really amazing. He is very rich but not artificial like other rack elements.
It sounsds like a more precise amp head.

The only thing I don't like so much is one frequency in the highs. Whatever I do this frequency is already there. Not that she sounds harsh... But a little bit brittle sounding highs.

I think it's perhaps the typicaly British EL34 touch ?

Anyway.... I play metal (lamb of god, god forbid, pantera, alice in chains stuff .....
I know everybody's here will say "change the tube for 6L6" ��

But I'm not a big fan of 6L6 ...too dirty Mids and not bluesy enough (I love playing blues and for that the EL34 are awesome. )

After many researches I read that KT77 tubes could be a good alternative for me...EL34 sound with the lows of 6L6 , more nuanced Mids and beautifull highs... Not brittle like EL34's.


So here is my question. What do you think about that. Is here anyone that tried and compare these 3 power tubes?
What do u have to expect?



'Scuse my English.... I'm french and I do my best ^^



Thanks to everyone here.

EL34s shouldn't be a problem for playing heavy metal (one of the bands you listed, Alice in Chains, has always used them, in fact), and I don't think you'll be able to just swap EL34s with another tube type without getting your amp modded.

This sounds more like a job for an EQ between your pre-amp and power-amp.

[Sirion]

Re: Qestion about tubes for metal.

I have a Marshall 9100 (basically a 50/50) where I changed the tubes from 6L6 to EL34. A couple of components had to be replaced, but nothing major. A competent amp tech should be able to do it easily. I like the sound more now. The only disadvantage that I can see is that the EL34 tubes are slightly taller, so that I had to take off the top cover (it has since disappeared) and use an extra rack space. I'm pretty sure what you ask could be done, too.

[Gtrjunior]

Qestion about tubes for metal.

I’d like to know what is on your pedal board...
I’d be willing to bet that you have something that is not true bypass....such as a wah that is making this happen.
Plug straight in without the board and see if it goes away.
I experienced something similar with my Quickrod and the wah was the problem.

I highly doubt the issue is with the tubes, provided they are all in good working order.

[dystrust]

Re: Qestion about tubes for metal.

EL34s shouldn't be a problem for playing heavy metal (one of the bands you listed, Alice in Chains, has always used them, in fact)

AFAIK Jerry Cantrell's only used them extensively since about 2002. When AIC first started he was playing SS Randalls before switching to Bogner-modified Marshalls which probably had EL-34s, but it's impossible to know for sure. Facelift was recorded with the Marshall(s), and the Facelift tour was a Bogner Fish preamp into a VHT 2150 which would've been loaded with KT-88s. Guitar tracks on Dirt were the Marshall(s) again along with a Mesa Dual Recto and a Rockman. For the Dirt tour, Mosvalve SS power amps replaced the VHTs. AIC self titled was a combination of Bogner & Peavey 5150, with a Mesa 2:90 replacing the Mosvalves for the tour. This basic setup continued until 2002 when he replaced his rack setup with a pair of Bogner Shiva heads for Degradation Trip. He added a pair of Uberschalls in the mid 2000s before switching to Friedmans in 2009 or 2010.

[PFDarkside]

Re: Qestion about tubes for metal.

AFAIK Jerry Cantrell's only used them extensively since about 2002. When AIC first started he was playing SS Randalls before switching to Bogner-modified Marshalls which probably had EL-34s, but it's impossible to know for sure. Facelift was recorded with the Marshall(s), and the Facelift tour was a Bogner Fish preamp into a VHT 2150 which would've been loaded with KT-88s. Guitar tracks on Dirt were the Marshall(s) again along with a Mesa Dual Recto and a Rockman. For the Dirt tour, Mosvalve SS power amps replaced the VHTs. AIC self titled was a combination of Bogner & Peavey 5150, with a Mesa 2:90 replacing the Mosvalves for the tour. This basic setup continued until 2002 when he replaced his rack setup with a pair of Bogner Shiva heads for Degradation Trip. He added a pair of Uberschalls in the mid 2000s before switching to Friedmans in 2009 or 2010.

...and his tone was freaking awesome on all of them.

[Gtrjunior]

Re: Qestion about tubes for metal.

...and his tone was freaking awesome on all of them.

His tone in “Rooster” is possibly my favorite all time tone. When he hits that A chord it’s just devastating.

[dystrust]

Re: Qestion about tubes for metal.

His tone in “Rooster” is possibly my favorite all time tone. When he hits that A chord it’s just devastating.

My favorite Jerry tone is the "We Die Young" demo; that grind is just evil. I wonder if that was Randall or Bogner??? There are some good tones on Dirt, but they could've got by with a few less overdubs IMO.

[Chickenwings]

Re: Qestion about tubes for metal.

EL34 sound with the lows of 6L6

Direct swap:

[Gtrjunior]

Re: Qestion about tubes for metal.

My favorite Jerry tone is the "We Die Young" demo; that grind is just evil. I wonder if that was Randall or Bogner??? There are some good tones on Dirt, but they could've got by with a few less overdubs IMO.

I just listened to it...wow that is amazing tone right there. If that was a SS Randall that’s the best SS Tone I’ve ever heard. If I had to guess, I’d say Bogner.

[devastone]

Re: Qestion about tubes for metal.

It sounds like something you should be able to fix with the EQ in the Voodoo Valve. IIRC, they have lots of EQ-ability in them.

[Micha]

Re: Qestion about tubes for metal.

I don't say that playing metal with EL34's could be a problem. ...I say that I have some harsh frequency 'so.... Nothing dramatic but it is not very cool sounding.

Between my voodoo valve and my guitar I have a Dunlop cry baby from hell with true bypass. I don't expect that my sound problem is caused by the wah wah pedal

[Micha]

Re: Qestion about tubes for metal.

How could I expect if I change my EL34's for some other tube like KT77 , 6L6 or 6CA7 ?

[Micha]

Re: Qestion about tubes for metal.

I have a Marshall 9100 (basically a 50/50) where I changed the tubes from 6L6 to EL34. A couple of components had to be replaced, but nothing major. A competent amp tech should be able to do it easily. I like the sound more now. The only disadvantage that I can see is that the EL34 tubes are slightly taller, so that I had to take off the top cover (it has since disappeared) and use an extra rack space. I'm pretty sure what you ask could be done, too.

Hello.
Thanks for your answer.
If I swap the tubes I will not get problems with the tube height because it is an EL34 100/100 amp with taller tubes than the 9100.


How does this amp is sounding if you compare the 6L6 with the EL 34's?

What helped your decision to change the tubes?

[Lake Placid Blues]

Re: Qestion about tubes for metal.

How could I expect if I change my EL34's for some other tube like KT77 , 6L6 or 6CA7 ?

More bass, but tighter bass. More open mids. Brighter treble in the case of 6L6 and KT77. The 6CA7 and KT77 will still sound close to EL34s but with those changes. The differences are subtle. The 6L6 will respond noticeably different from EL34s. It will stay cleaner longer and will have comparatively scooped mids.

Technically the EL34 is a pentode, while the 6CA7, KT77 and 6L6 are Beam Tetrodes. They saturate a bit differently once pushed into distortion. The KT77 and 6CA7 have mostly the same electrical specifications tolerances as the EL34 (such as impedance, input sensitivity.....ect..) The 6L6 has more different electrical specifications.

Further the technical trivia, the EL34, 6CA7, has 25 watt plate dissipation. The 6L6GC has 30 watt plate dissipation. The 5881 (6L6GB) version of the 6L6 has 23 watts pd.* The KT77 originally had 30 watt plate dissipation, but current production JJ versions have 25 watt to 30 watt plate dissipation. I believe the Gold Lion KT77 is 30 watt pd. Your tech will need to take this into account when setting bias.

* The Sovtek 5881 of the 1990s is actually a 6L6GC, not a true 5881.