Tweet
We Musicians are inherently conservative when it comes to how we like to see our instruments built.
Example A: We are the last real holdout for using tubes in electronics (except apparently for the Russian Army, another group not known for embracing the future with both hands).
For many players those new-fangled solid-state amps are still looked at skeptically. (I'll include myself in that group.)
Still, the manufacturers have continued to experiment and innovate and look for ways to improve them, and release models using the technology. The Class D power amps seems to have swept through the world of bass like a tsunami, so much so that the old-standby class AB solid-state amps are referred to as "Lead Sleds" and most companies have stopped manufacturing them.
I thought about this when looking at the Mesa web site and marveling at the incredible tiger-stripe maple cabinets that they offer. They are lovely, and I can see them appealing to the same sorts of players who love fancy maple capped PRS guitars. (Carlos Santana, I'm talkin' to you!)
Another thought I had looking at them was "wow, I wouldn't want to throw that in the back of a van at 2:00 AM and hope it gets home unscratched".
Anyway: it struck me that few manufacturers step outside the "marine grade plywood" era of amp construction. Why is this? Mesa are just doing the most possible with the material, cosmetically, which turns out to be quite a bit indeed, but reading through any "which 4x12 cabinet should I buy" thread over the last few years will show that "marine grade" "baltic" "Russian" "17 ply" "void free" PLYWOOD is not just King, but the Queen, Jack and Ace of amp construction still.
When I look at loudspeaker enclosures in other applications I see a lot of innovation and new materials being used.
The last pair of studio-monitors I bought are a very nice sounding set of self-powered JBL's and they are made from injection molded plastic, so that things like the carrying handle are moulded right in. They sound really fantastic, I used them for stereo speakers in my room dedicated to a home gym when they are not being pressed into service as PA monitors. The ability to build gently curving or tapered surfaces (loved by acoustic engineers - every go into a high end studio and notice the shapes of the rooms? They are not rectangles) - seems a very advantageous characteristic of plastic for amp enclosures.
A friend of mine is into really high-end audio. His speakers have gorgeous book-matched rosewood cabinets, but of course that is just a veneer. He explained that they were made of a "space age material" with almost no resonance. Apparently in high-end audio it's considered best to not have the cabinet vibrate (that's the speakers job) so acounstically "dead" materials are preferred over plywood.
Plywood has a lot of nice characteristics. Its strong, it's easy to cut, shape and join. It's easy to finish in a variety of ways. But it's also extremely heavy and pretty lively and reflective.. My 4x10 Orange cab weighs (per manual) 101 lbs. Bass players seem to have taken to the previously mentioned Class D amps largely because of the tremendous weight savings. The Ampeg SVT reissue is 86 lbs. The new Class D amps with similar output are 2 or 3 lbs. Still when it gets to the speakers, if they want the 8x10 sound they are still going to haul something like an 8x10 cab and it's going to weigh well over 100lbs.
When players want to downsize their speaker set up they typically go for fewer and smaller speakers. The 2x12 is the new 4x12, it seems. But they are made oversized to get the sound, and thus the weight is still up there on a lot of them. Mesa's 2x12 Vertical Slant Cab is still 75lbs.
The only lighter cabs out there are the cheaper entry-level ones which (apparently) use thinner woods and particle board to achieve some substantial weight savings. Of course thinner wood makes for less durable cabinets, so that's not really a great solution. Particle board is hated for both it's looks and it's tone, although whether vibration is really useful in an amp cabinet is still an open question. (Kustom Bass Amps, for instance, used heavy pleated vinyl to deaden their cabs). Certainly, as mentioned, the high end audio guys prefer deader materials like carbon fiber, aluminum honeycomb and even more exotics.
What would a carbon-fiber 4x12 cabinet sound like? How much weight savings could you achieve?
How about a JBL style plastic enclosure. Plastic, if properly formulated, can be far more abuse-proof than plywood, which is why all high-end instrument cases are made from it. It seems to be the preferred material for even pretty expensive monitors at this point. So, it's possible to build great sounding enclosures out of it? (and while you are at it speaker housing
Personally I like the presence of big 4x12 cabs, but wonder if the weight brought on by all those 17 layers of ply is really the best way to hold my drivers.
Illustrations:
Classic "Lead Sled" Ampeg 450 Solid State class AB bass amp:
Trace Elliot Class D "Elf" amp:
Orange 8x10 Bass Cab, 130 lbs!:
JBL Eon 12, a 1000 Watt Powered PA Monitor, w/ 12" driver+horn: 33lbs
A.C.T 1 - a carbon fiber high-end audio speaker ($30,000 a pair)
Classic Marshall 1960A 4x10 cab: 80lbs
Lovely vintange look, Celestion G-12H 30's and pricey at $1500. Not sure what "hand-wired" means? Do monkeys wire the cheap ones?
Someone told me they use thicker gauge wire. OK!
Somehow the Orange manages to weigh 20lbs more. Some of that is dimensional (it's bigger), but maybe the wood is thicker too?
Sure feels that way. All other things being equal does heavier = better sound? Is 3/4" ply "better sounding" than 5/8"? Seems dubious.
Celestion G12K 100 speakers, 102 lbs. $1100.
Finally, I noticed a while back that the cheap Marshalls weigh a lot less.
MG 412 ACF. This is the "Carbon Series" which has carbon fiber tolex, but is presumably built out of some lesser wood product than Russian 17-ply plywood.
It has CELESTION G12-412MG speakers, and weighs 52 lbs. (About 1/2 the weight of the Orange 4x12 pictured above!)
What would this sound like if you "hand wired" it with "fat wire" and the Celestion G-12H's used in the Handwired series? I doubt anyone has ever tried, but it might be interesting to try. (Again, assuming they are dimensionally the same)
Amazingly this cabinet is sold new by Guitar Center for only $260.
A single Celestion G=12H replacement speaker is $150 from the same source. Load the cab with them and the speakers would cost more than 2X the price of original cab! Looked at another way though: in the 1960 AHW you are paying about $600 for the speakers, and therefore about $900 for that nice plywood. Would $900 speakers in a $600 box sound better?
I Wonder what a real carbon fiber enclosure would sound like? Wonder what it would weigh?
Sorry - this is a scattershot Monday morning posting.
Have at it! Have fun!
Example A: We are the last real holdout for using tubes in electronics (except apparently for the Russian Army, another group not known for embracing the future with both hands).
For many players those new-fangled solid-state amps are still looked at skeptically. (I'll include myself in that group.)
Still, the manufacturers have continued to experiment and innovate and look for ways to improve them, and release models using the technology. The Class D power amps seems to have swept through the world of bass like a tsunami, so much so that the old-standby class AB solid-state amps are referred to as "Lead Sleds" and most companies have stopped manufacturing them.
I thought about this when looking at the Mesa web site and marveling at the incredible tiger-stripe maple cabinets that they offer. They are lovely, and I can see them appealing to the same sorts of players who love fancy maple capped PRS guitars. (Carlos Santana, I'm talkin' to you!)
Another thought I had looking at them was "wow, I wouldn't want to throw that in the back of a van at 2:00 AM and hope it gets home unscratched".
Anyway: it struck me that few manufacturers step outside the "marine grade plywood" era of amp construction. Why is this? Mesa are just doing the most possible with the material, cosmetically, which turns out to be quite a bit indeed, but reading through any "which 4x12 cabinet should I buy" thread over the last few years will show that "marine grade" "baltic" "Russian" "17 ply" "void free" PLYWOOD is not just King, but the Queen, Jack and Ace of amp construction still.
When I look at loudspeaker enclosures in other applications I see a lot of innovation and new materials being used.
The last pair of studio-monitors I bought are a very nice sounding set of self-powered JBL's and they are made from injection molded plastic, so that things like the carrying handle are moulded right in. They sound really fantastic, I used them for stereo speakers in my room dedicated to a home gym when they are not being pressed into service as PA monitors. The ability to build gently curving or tapered surfaces (loved by acoustic engineers - every go into a high end studio and notice the shapes of the rooms? They are not rectangles) - seems a very advantageous characteristic of plastic for amp enclosures.
A friend of mine is into really high-end audio. His speakers have gorgeous book-matched rosewood cabinets, but of course that is just a veneer. He explained that they were made of a "space age material" with almost no resonance. Apparently in high-end audio it's considered best to not have the cabinet vibrate (that's the speakers job) so acounstically "dead" materials are preferred over plywood.
Plywood has a lot of nice characteristics. Its strong, it's easy to cut, shape and join. It's easy to finish in a variety of ways. But it's also extremely heavy and pretty lively and reflective.. My 4x10 Orange cab weighs (per manual) 101 lbs. Bass players seem to have taken to the previously mentioned Class D amps largely because of the tremendous weight savings. The Ampeg SVT reissue is 86 lbs. The new Class D amps with similar output are 2 or 3 lbs. Still when it gets to the speakers, if they want the 8x10 sound they are still going to haul something like an 8x10 cab and it's going to weigh well over 100lbs.
When players want to downsize their speaker set up they typically go for fewer and smaller speakers. The 2x12 is the new 4x12, it seems. But they are made oversized to get the sound, and thus the weight is still up there on a lot of them. Mesa's 2x12 Vertical Slant Cab is still 75lbs.
The only lighter cabs out there are the cheaper entry-level ones which (apparently) use thinner woods and particle board to achieve some substantial weight savings. Of course thinner wood makes for less durable cabinets, so that's not really a great solution. Particle board is hated for both it's looks and it's tone, although whether vibration is really useful in an amp cabinet is still an open question. (Kustom Bass Amps, for instance, used heavy pleated vinyl to deaden their cabs). Certainly, as mentioned, the high end audio guys prefer deader materials like carbon fiber, aluminum honeycomb and even more exotics.
What would a carbon-fiber 4x12 cabinet sound like? How much weight savings could you achieve?
How about a JBL style plastic enclosure. Plastic, if properly formulated, can be far more abuse-proof than plywood, which is why all high-end instrument cases are made from it. It seems to be the preferred material for even pretty expensive monitors at this point. So, it's possible to build great sounding enclosures out of it? (and while you are at it speaker housing
Personally I like the presence of big 4x12 cabs, but wonder if the weight brought on by all those 17 layers of ply is really the best way to hold my drivers.
Illustrations:
Classic "Lead Sled" Ampeg 450 Solid State class AB bass amp:
Trace Elliot Class D "Elf" amp:
Orange 8x10 Bass Cab, 130 lbs!:
JBL Eon 12, a 1000 Watt Powered PA Monitor, w/ 12" driver+horn: 33lbs
A.C.T 1 - a carbon fiber high-end audio speaker ($30,000 a pair)
Classic Marshall 1960A 4x10 cab: 80lbs
Lovely vintange look, Celestion G-12H 30's and pricey at $1500. Not sure what "hand-wired" means? Do monkeys wire the cheap ones?
Someone told me they use thicker gauge wire. OK!
Somehow the Orange manages to weigh 20lbs more. Some of that is dimensional (it's bigger), but maybe the wood is thicker too?
Sure feels that way. All other things being equal does heavier = better sound? Is 3/4" ply "better sounding" than 5/8"? Seems dubious.
Celestion G12K 100 speakers, 102 lbs. $1100.
Finally, I noticed a while back that the cheap Marshalls weigh a lot less.
MG 412 ACF. This is the "Carbon Series" which has carbon fiber tolex, but is presumably built out of some lesser wood product than Russian 17-ply plywood.
It has CELESTION G12-412MG speakers, and weighs 52 lbs. (About 1/2 the weight of the Orange 4x12 pictured above!)
What would this sound like if you "hand wired" it with "fat wire" and the Celestion G-12H's used in the Handwired series? I doubt anyone has ever tried, but it might be interesting to try. (Again, assuming they are dimensionally the same)
Amazingly this cabinet is sold new by Guitar Center for only $260.
A single Celestion G=12H replacement speaker is $150 from the same source. Load the cab with them and the speakers would cost more than 2X the price of original cab! Looked at another way though: in the 1960 AHW you are paying about $600 for the speakers, and therefore about $900 for that nice plywood. Would $900 speakers in a $600 box sound better?
I Wonder what a real carbon fiber enclosure would sound like? Wonder what it would weigh?
Sorry - this is a scattershot Monday morning posting.
Have at it! Have fun!
Comment