Has the line 6 helix died out?

[Demanic]

Re: Has the line 6 helix died out?

Well, maybe the next update

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[Despair]

Re: Has the line 6 helix died out?

It does the pedalboard thing very well, I think, even though the HeadRush has it beat for intuitive interface. My biggest gripe is the lack of anything but very basic parallell routing options, which is one of the things that separate a pedalboard from an actual rig. This is probably a question of firepower, but it is also something that has been the standard on TC Electronic's outings since the turn of the millenium, and it is one aspect of professionality that is still eluding these products. The Axe FX III seems to be able to do extremely well in this regard, and the GT has the Helix firmly beat, so it is something I hope will become standard beginning with the next cycle og Line 6 products.

You can do 4 completely independent stereo paths with the Helix. Each starting with a noise gate, and ending with a pan/level adjust. The Axe-FX do have superior routing, but also a more complicated UI in tradeoff. Helix is 4x8 but you can only connect 2 of the pairs of rows, at one of 9 connect points on the preceding row. You can connect the return at any later point, or have it go straight to an output. Outputs of first 2 rows can be independently routed to inputs of last 2 rows. It's not the 4x12 of FM3, Axe-FX II or AX8, or the 6x14 of the Axe-FX III, but it's far more accessible at the device, too.

I've googled around and found 1 page that does look like the GT-1000 is superior for paralell/series flexibility. Looks like there are some ease of use tradeoffs for that flexibility. It also has more limitations on how many of what effects you can place. From what I'm seeing, maximum of two amps in one patch. Helix can easily do at least 4 (with 4 cabs), and if you are willing to sacrifice other effects, you can put more amps, though alternate cabs get messy quickly. Helix also separates out preamps, so you can run a preamp in front of another amp, to sacrifice less DSP to your extreme amp flexibility. And with Native and v1.80 (equivalent of physical models 2.80), the DSP limits go away, so if I had enough CPU (or don't mind nonrealtime processing in my DAW) I can do 32 amps, if all I want in a patch is 32 amps.

One of my favorite tricks on Helix is switching which IR an IR node uses in snapshots (each patch can have 8 snapshots, they work similarly to Fractal's scenes), which sidesteps need to use multiple cabs and turn them on or off per snap to change speakers on amps. That said, Fractal absolutely demolishes Line 6 on ease of working with IRs, and I hope Line 6 addresses that soon (allow more IRs, and better previewing and rearranging).

Line 6 has said more complex routing isn't impossible in a future update, but it'd take some serious redesign and isn't a priority right now. Line 6 has talked about something like a ten year support plan for Helix. That's a lot of longevity for a digital device.

One nice thing is seeing Boss add new effects (including amps and especially bass effects and amps) in updates! I don't think I've heard of them doing that before (rather the opposite, a tendency to ignore flaws and bugs and only work on future hardware). Nice to see the impact that Fractal Audio and now Line 6 are having on the way the industry supports devices.

[Sirion]

Re: Has the line 6 helix died out?

You can do 4 completely independent stereo paths with the Helix. Each starting with a noise gate, and ending with a pan/level adjust. The Axe-FX do have superior routing, but also a more complicated UI in tradeoff. Helix is 4x8 but you can only connect 2 of the pairs of rows, at one of 9 connect points on the preceding row. You can connect the return at any later point, or have it go straight to an output. Outputs of first 2 rows can be independently routed to inputs of last 2 rows. It's not the 4x12 of FM3, Axe-FX II or AX8, or the 6x14 of the Axe-FX III, but it's far more accessible at the device, too.

I've googled around and found 1 page that does look like the GT-1000 is superior for paralell/series flexibility. Looks like there are some ease of use tradeoffs for that flexibility. It also has more limitations on how many of what effects you can place. From what I'm seeing, maximum of two amps in one patch. Helix can easily do at least 4 (with 4 cabs), and if you are willing to sacrifice other effects, you can put more amps, though alternate cabs get messy quickly. Helix also separates out preamps, so you can run a preamp in front of another amp, to sacrifice less DSP to your extreme amp flexibility. And with Native and v1.80 (equivalent of physical models 2.80), the DSP limits go away, so if I had enough CPU (or don't mind nonrealtime processing in my DAW) I can do 32 amps, if all I want in a patch is 32 amps.

One of my favorite tricks on Helix is switching which IR an IR node uses in snapshots (each patch can have 8 snapshots, they work similarly to Fractal's scenes), which sidesteps need to use multiple cabs and turn them on or off per snap to change speakers on amps. That said, Fractal absolutely demolishes Line 6 on ease of working with IRs, and I hope Line 6 addresses that soon (allow more IRs, and better previewing and rearranging).

Line 6 has said more complex routing isn't impossible in a future update, but it'd take some serious redesign and isn't a priority right now. Line 6 has talked about something like a ten year support plan for Helix. That's a lot of longevity for a digital device.

One nice thing is seeing Boss add new effects (including amps and especially bass effects and amps) in updates! I don't think I've heard of them doing that before (rather the opposite, a tendency to ignore flaws and bugs and only work on future hardware). Nice to see the impact that Fractal Audio and now Line 6 are having on the way the industry supports devices.

Yes, this basically conforms with what I found. The stereo path system works well enough for stereo, but I find it a bit too limiting still, especially since you strictly speaking do not have four parallell paths, but 2*2. You can probably squeeze a bit more out of it through the effects loops, but then you are bound to particular hardware solutions. That might be worth it, but it is never optimal. I agree that the GT imposes limits of its own, but I also found those limits to be imposed in an intelligent manner: there are more blocks of what I'd reckon I'd want more of in most rigs. Both solutions are limited by their hardware, but workable. That I went with Line 6 in the end was really only a question of price and features: I don't need the amp modelling. If one of them (or another company!) would offer an effects modeller with that kind of sound quality as a rack unit, I would be all over it.

No matter what happens, the technology is only going to get better, and allow us for more experimentation (and simplicity in use!) in the future. There are enough brands on the bandwagon that I have very high hopes for future releases, and, as you say, it is nice to observe that the units are actually being supported!

[Despair]

Re: Has the line 6 helix died out?

Yes, this basically conforms with what I found. The stereo path system works well enough for stereo, but I find it a bit too limiting still, especially since you strictly speaking do not have four parallell paths, but 2*2. You can probably squeeze a bit more out of it through the effects loops, but then you are bound to particular hardware solutions. That might be worth it, but it is never optimal. I agree that the GT imposes limits of its own, but I also found those limits to be imposed in an intelligent manner: there are more blocks of what I'd reckon I'd want more of in most rigs. Both solutions are limited by their hardware, but workable. That I went with Line 6 in the end was really only a question of price and features: I don't need the amp modelling. If one of them (or another company!) would offer an effects modeller with that kind of sound quality as a rack unit, I would be all over it.

No matter what happens, the technology is only going to get better, and allow us for more experimentation (and simplicity in use!) in the future. There are enough brands on the bandwagon that I have very high hopes for future releases, and, as you say, it is nice to observe that the units are actually being supported!

It truly is 4 completely separate stereo paths (each analog input on the HW unit is mono, though, not sure what USB exposes). There are people who use it for separate piezo & magnetic guitar inputs, a microphone, and a bass all through one Helix with each processed separately. 2*2 is just the default arrangement. In Helix Native (presumably also Helix Edit), load TEMPLATES/OTHER 01D Quadraphonic, grab red circles just behind Host at start of 1A, drag it down to under host, it'll show up as 2nd Host input. Repeat for 2A. Viola! There are tradeoffs, you lose loop options if you choose to arrange for independent inputs/outputs.

Speaking of microphones, one distortion I couldn't find a use for turns out to be intended only for vocals [Megaphone, based on a TC Helicon effect]. Only found that out this morning, while poking around to see what a few Line 6 Originals were inspired by.

As far as who has best effects... If you prefer the Boss sound, stop there. If you want the most horsepower, and are OK with rolling your own attempts at many particular effects, Axe-FX III is amazing. Line 6 has the widest variety of accurate models of particular effects I've seen in one affordable device. I've heard of more than a few artists combining Helix (particularly HX FX) for easy favorite effects with Axe-FX III. Then on into their Eventides...

[Aceman]

Re: Has the line 6 helix died out?

Death by Kemper

[Despair]

Re: Has the line 6 helix died out?

Death by Kemper

Funny you say that, because I've heard of more than a few Kemper users combining it with a Helix Floor or HX FX.

[CapoFirstFret]

Re: Has the line 6 helix died out?

Funny you say that, because I've heard of more than a few Kemper users combining it with a Helix Floor or HX FX.

I think they're similar, but designed for different users. The Helix is much easier to use than the Kemper and the effects are a lot better. The amps on the Kemper however, that's another beast entirely.

[Red_Label]

Re: Has the line 6 helix died out?

I think they're similar, but designed for different users. The Helix is much easier to use than the Kemper and the effects are a lot better. The amps on the Kemper however, that's another beast entirely.

I couldn't stand the UI for the Kemper. Didn't last more than a couple of weeks. My Helix LT stuck around for a year and a half. It was the favorite modeler I've ever played and I'll probably be picking up a stomp version of the Helix at some point.

[CapoFirstFret]

Re: Has the line 6 helix died out?

I couldn't stand the UI for the Kemper. Didn't last more than a couple of weeks. My Helix LT stuck around for a year and a half. It was the favorite modeler I've ever played and I'll probably be picking up a stomp version of the Helix at some point.

I think I'm going to snag a stomp for my traditional pedalboard setup. It's too good not to have it as an option. Also a great backup to the Helix as I don't fully trust the reliability of these all in one digital boxes.

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[Red_Label]

Re: Has the line 6 helix died out?

I think I'm going to snag a stomp for my traditional pedalboard setup. It's too good not to have it as an option. Also a great backup to the Helix as I don't fully trust the reliability of these all in one digital boxes.

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Yup, the stomp would work great for those things. I'd like one just to kick around the man cave/studio, but it would be an awesome gigging backup as well once I start gigging rock again (just gigging with an acoustic trio at the moment).