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Orange rocker 32 with pedals or a helix LT?

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  • Orange rocker 32 with pedals or a helix LT?

    So far I have narrowed my choices down to these. The up side to the orange itís tube both channels sound good and had the cool stereo thing going on. The downside is itís loud I wouldnít be able to crank it at home. And I would have to do a pedalboard again to cover my effects.
    Helix LT paired with a headrush frfr 112. Would be a smaller setup over all with a lot more options. Less cables and stuff in the way. Sounds decent from some of the clips Iíve heard. Down side it wonít have the tube warmth or feel I am used to.
    I would like to go play both to hear them personally. But that is not an option. I mainly play at home and have a 12x12 guitar/work room to keep everything in. Iíd love to have pro and cons from anyone that has tried either one. Most of the other forums seem pretty biased one way or the other. People on here have never steered me wrong before.

  • #2
    Re: Orange rocker 32 with pedals or a helix LT?

    it sounds to me like you've narrowed it down to two options, neither of which you sound very excited about...my opinion is that you look some more and find an amp you can really get excited about...

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    • #3
      Re: Orange rocker 32 with pedals or a helix LT?

      Are you certain that the Helix won't have the tube warmth or feel that you are used to? Sure, plenty of people say that digital can't ever sound just like tube analog. But then, most of those same people have never done a double blind test. And I'm sure that most of those people would also say "Well, it gets 98% there."
      If you are playing mostly at home, I think that the Helix would be much more advantageous.

      Sent from my Alcatel_5044C using Tapatalk

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      • #4
        Re: Orange rocker 32 with pedals or a helix LT?

        I like both pretty good from the clips I have heard. The only issue I have with tube amps now is volume. My mom and step dad had to move in with me and my wife since they are disabled. I can’t turn the volume up past 1 and even then they can hear it in their room. So cranking something to get the best sound isn’t an option.
        As far as the helix goes I don’t really care if it’s 100% accurate. So far the only experience I have with modelers are the vox amps. And my little blackstar.

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        • #5
          Re: Orange rocker 32 with pedals or a helix LT?

          I would imagine that the Helix would have some sort of option for headphones and silent recording. Tube amps are great, but if you need to crank it to get your sound, they probably wouldn't work for your current situation. Even the lunchbox size are quite loud by themselves. Maybe one that has power scaling down to one watt would work.
          Not too familiar with the Helix LT, but if it has effects and different amps, I think that you would probably find it more satisfying in the long run.

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          • #6
            Re: Orange rocker 32 with pedals or a helix LT?

            I'd go Helix, Headrush, or GT-1000 and a FRFR (the JBL EON610 is cheaper than the Headrush right now). Given your situation I think you will have more fun with one of those, and that's what it's all about. Another option would be one of the Tech 21 v2 FlyRigs, maybe a few pedals (phaser, flanger, chorus, pick your poisons), and a 1-12 cabinet with small power amp or powered FRFR cabinet. The FlyRigs are analog, have knobs, and sound great, and if you want a different distortion just plug your pedal of choice in front.

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            • #7
              Re: Orange rocker 32 with pedals or a helix LT?

              Helix is about indistinguishable for feel, under the right conditions. The main problems are people who are used to playing in a particular spot near a particular guitar cab at volume. Change any element of that (including volume) and feel changes to some degree.

              There are workarounds. If budget permits (it is $500 more) I'd look at a Powercab Plus instead of another FRFR, especially in combo with a Helix. Yes, it's not true hi-fi, but... Tradeoff is it is particularly good at emulating a number of guitar speaker types. Other option (which is still usable with Powercab!) is farfield IRs, such as Jay Mitchell's. They basically remove all mic influence, room/surface reflection and distance cues from an IR recorded in that fashion, so combine it with a good FRFR and it sounds as close as is currently possible to using that speaker cab. Next Helix firmware revision improves Powercab Plus integration a bunch, too!

              There are people who prefer different playback solutions to Powercab Plus. No sealed back 1x12 cabinet can perfectly replicate the punch of a pair of 4x12s at volume, or the airiness of an open backed cabinet. There are even people who prefer Headrush. The Powercab Plus weighs a hair less, but the Headrush FRFR-112 is a bit smaller. JBL EON610 is even smaller and lighter, but it drops down to a 10" woofer and raises the +/-3dB low point from 53hz to 60Hz. The Powercab Plus is weakest of the three for bass, having more of a guitar speaker, but any of them could use a subwoofer to handle bass guitar or suboctave synths anyways.

              I actually use a receiver with Audyssey room/speaker correction as my playback system, and don't see any reason to get something else for my needs. My tastes are slightly unusual in that I chase recorded tone more than live amp-in-the-room tones. I use Helix Native, but it does lack the variable input impedance of the hardware units (because my USB audio IO doesn't have that feature). You could trial Helix Native for free for 15 days, but how good it sounds is very dependent on your audio interface, and latency is dependent on that and your computer, too.

              Another cheaper option would be to look at a Helix Stomp, which doesn't have the horsepower or switching cababilities of the bigger model. If you need more effects, multi-amp rigs or whatever, you can use it as an audio interface for Helix Native (which is $99 instead of $399, if you buy helix hardware first). That'd give you a grab and go with simpler patches, and the input impedance qualities of the hardware units, at a lower entry price.

              Given your situation, i don't think I'd even consider a small tube amp, given you can't even hit 1 on volume knob... But I am happy with latest generation modellers.

              Whatever you get, I'd suggest buying from someplace with a good return policy. It's never possible to be completely sure things will work out for you until you try them where you need to use them.

              I do use a Digitech Freqout for feedback/ebow goofing around, but at a hair higher than conversation level, I start getting increased sustain from speaker interaction, so it's not necessary for quiet playing to be fun.

              Helix is getting 8 new amp channels and around 9 new effects (overdue spring release of firmware 2.80) very soon, bringing it to 67 guitar amps & 14 bass amps, 1 mic preamp, and 206 effects including 43 distortions. It's got a lot of surprising old amps, and beats out Fractal or Kemper for some sounds. Most accessible and wide range of easy to use effects of any of the top tier modelers. My dad who isn't wowed by much of any distortion, was stunned by how well it manages a live Hendrix tone (check out the Pick Attack Solo patch as a starting point). He's a longtime JC-120 user, and showed me how to dial in a better Roland tone on it.

              Helix does work well in combination with other amps, too! 4CM (4 Cable Mode) lets you use your amp's preamp in a loop (which can be placed about anywhere in your Helix virtual rig). So even if you decide to go with a conventional amp because you just prefer a particular speaker, I'd look at a Helix for more tonal variety. Or a Stomp if you never use more than 6 effects (including amp model with 1 cab/mic model as 1), or an HX FX if you don't care about amp modelling and just want effects.

              The Helix is accurate enough to defeat golden ears in blind tests in recording comparison tests, when dialed in correctly. Dynamics and feel are definitely there, though it doesn't have ability to swap preamp tubes to taste like a real amp. I'm fine with that, given instead you can tweak tons of settings simultaneously from snapshot to snapshot inside a patch. Or just treat it like a pedalboard and turn individual effects on and off with the footswitches. Or mix the two, with a "stompshot" config. 4 stomps individually togglable, and 4 snapshots.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Orange rocker 32 with pedals or a helix LT?

                Originally posted by Despair View Post
                Helix is about indistinguishable for feel, under the right conditions. The main problems are people who are used to playing in a particular spot near a particular guitar cab at volume. Change any element of that (including volume) and feel changes to some degree.

                Helix does work well in combination with other amps, too! 4CM (4 Cable Mode) lets you use your amp's preamp in a loop (which can be placed about anywhere in your Helix virtual rig). So even if you decide to go with a conventional amp because you just prefer a particular speaker, I'd look at a Helix for more tonal variety. Or a Stomp if you never use more than 6 effects (including amp model with 1 cab/mic model as 1), or an HX FX if you don't care about amp modelling and just want effects.

                The Helix is accurate enough to defeat golden ears in blind tests in recording comparison tests, when dialed in correctly. Dynamics and feel are definitely there, though it doesn't have ability to swap preamp tubes to taste like a real amp. I'm fine with that, given instead you can tweak tons of settings simultaneously from snapshot to snapshot inside a patch. Or just treat it like a pedalboard and turn individual effects on and off with the footswitches. Or mix the two, with a "stompshot" config. 4 stomps individually togglable, and 4 snapshots.
                Despair is apparently a huge Helix fanboy, I like the GT-1000, you can substitute Headrush, GT-1000, or even the Mooer GE-300 for Helix in the above comments, the current generation of mid to high end modelers are all great if they are dialed in correctly.

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                • #9
                  Re: Orange rocker 32 with pedals or a helix LT?

                  Go for the Rocker 15 combo instead. It's the same amp with only one power section, but it has the ability to run at 1/2 a watt, which will let you crank the power section much more.
                  - Tom

                  Originally posted by Frankly
                  Some people make the wine. Some people drink the wine. And some people sniff the cork and wonder what might have been.
                  The Eagle never lost so much time as when he submitted to learn of the Crow.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Orange rocker 32 with pedals or a helix LT?

                    Hardly a blind fanboy, I think I'd actually prefer an Axe-FX III over the Helix. But the Helix does have strengths I like over even the mighty Axe.
                    And no, none of those except GT-1000 (and that with caveats) is a direct substitute for the Helix as modeler and particularly as an effects platform. Boss doesn't have the proven track record of Fractal Audio or Line 6 for ongoing support, either. Their reputation for fixing bugs and shortcomings in the next product used to be a real issue... But that does seem to be changing with the GT-1000.

                    They all have their individual strengths, Headrush is the easiest to use, if you don't need complicated effects paths, and hasn't had a firmware update adding new features this year, from what I can see. AmpliFire is a good alternative on the low end, but less effects again, but there are people who prefer their amp modelling to anything, especially once price is taken into account. Mooer got caught stealing code from Electro-Harmonix, so even if I was more familiar with their stuff, I couldn't recommend them.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Orange rocker 32 with pedals or a helix LT?

                      Originally posted by man-in-moon View Post
                      I like both pretty good from the clips I have heard. The only issue I have with tube amps now is volume. My mom and step dad had to move in with me and my wife since they are disabled. I canít turn the volume up past 1 and even then they can hear it in their room. So cranking something to get the best sound isnít an option.
                      As far as the helix goes I donít really care if itís 100% accurate. So far the only experience I have with modelers are the vox amps. And my little blackstar.
                      You want something that isn't loud & can work with headphones. Helix is pricy.

                      Look into yamaha thr10 series & vox adio amps. Lots of low volume amps from joyo as well, forgot the names. There are a bunch other models & companies that make such products. Orange also has micro terror.

                      Those will be easy on your wallet.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Orange rocker 32 with pedals or a helix LT?

                        I bought a Headrush Pedalboard a couple of months ago along with the FRFR108 and will never go back. Very easy to work with and gives me much more than I'll ever use in terms of amps, effects, and flexibility. Next Firmware update is tomorrow (July 2).

                        Modeling is the way to go for your situation, no matter which unit you choose. You definitely also want something like a Headrush FRFR speaker to go with it... I had tried going into just the power section of my amp and found that it was just too limiting in comparison to the FRFR. Put it on a speaker stand too for best performance.

                        Sent from my Fire HD10 using Tapatalk
                        Originally posted by The Commodores?
                        "Chicken Brown Chicken Brown Cow"

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Orange rocker 32 with pedals or a helix LT?

                          Originally posted by man-in-moon View Post
                          So far I have narrowed my choices down to these. The up side to the orange it’s tube both channels sound good and had the cool stereo thing going on. The downside is it’s loud I wouldn’t be able to crank it at home. And I would have to do a pedalboard again to cover my effects.
                          Helix LT paired with a headrush frfr 112.

                          Would be a smaller setup over all with a lot more options
                          .

                          Less cables and stuff in the way. Sounds decent from some of the clips I’ve heard. Down side it won’t have the tube warmth or feel I am used to.
                          I would like to go play both to hear them personally. But that is not an option. I mainly play at home and have a 12x12 guitar/work room to keep everything in. I’d love to have pro and cons from anyone that has tried either one. Most of the other forums seem pretty biased one way or the other. People on here have never steered me wrong before.

                          Do you want your OWN tone, or two thousand 'other' tones that you will probably never ever use ?

                          ALL the *GREAT guitar players (of today and of yester-year) have ONE main / core tone, and build their entire career around that one sound.

                          IF you are in a covers band, or a church band, yes, by all means, get the simulator.
                          If you are in an original-music band, get the real amp.

                          My 2 cents.


                          * Hank Marvin, D!ck Dale, Jeff Beck, Phil X, Slash, DimeBag Darrel, Brian, May, Warren Haynes, Jimmy Page, Y. Malmsteen, Kim Tayil, Tony Iommi, Jack White, SRV, John Petrucci, "Fast" Eddie Clarke/Phil Campbell, and sooo many more.
                          Tele, SG, LP Jr, '76 Ibanez Artist & Tokai LS92 + FUZZ boxes into a '66 AB165 Bassman & 2X12 (55Hz Greenbacks) / '73 Orange OR120 & 2X12 (V30 & SwampThang) / Orange Thunderverb 50 & PPC212 / Marshall Vintage Modern 50 & 2X12 Genz Benz g-Flex / Laney Klipp / Laney AOR Pro Tube 100


                          "...it's a tree with a microphone" - Leslie West

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                          • #14
                            Re: Orange rocker 32 with pedals or a helix LT?

                            Invalid argument, a lot of modern "greats" are touring with Kempers or Axe-Fx units now. If today's modelers had existed 30 years ago I'm sure more people on your list (many of which are no longer with us) would would have used them. Not to mention the people on your list have places where they can play their tube amps at volumes where they can sound good. YJM has a studio in his house where he can have his Marshalls cranked without disturbing others. A 10W tube amp would be pushing too loud for my little house.

                            I only have a few basic sounds on my modeler, and strangely enough they are very similar to the sounds I had when I used amps, not that I'm great or anything, it's just the way I use it, I don't need or want to program a wide variety of tones. As far as feel goes, it's not as big a deal as people are making it out to be, a tube amp at bedroom volumes is not pushing the power tubes at volumes where the "tubey compression" comes into play. FWIW, most modern high gain amps have very clean power sections because all the dirt is generated in the preamp.

                            Less people have gotten lost in the woods in the 60s if they only had a cell phones with them.
                            Last edited by devastone; 07-02-2019, 08:45 AM.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Orange rocker 32 with pedals or a helix LT?

                              IMHO, power tube distortion is good for some sounds, but not necessarily modern high gain styles.

                              Sent from my Alcatel_5044C using Tapatalk

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