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Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

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  • #76
    Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

    For a time in the Sixties Vox ceased production of valve amps, particularly in the USA, in favour of SS. They saw this as the way forward, so were ahead of the game in that sense. Then production of tube units started again despite losing the market share in tube amp manufacture they once had, and continues today. Marshall are another case in point. They too have dabbled in solid state but in 2018 released the Origin & Studio models, both valve amps and both sold out.. According to Marshall management, some things are best done with valves. They still feel the combination of ECC83 & EL34 tubes are central to the classic Marshall sound. So I guess the two will co exist for some time to come ...

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    • #77
      Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

      Originally posted by DavidRavenMoon View Post
      My Code 100 sounds great. But if your the kind of person that just plugs into an amp and that’s your tone, it’s not for you.

      Also you have to get past the first 20 patches that have lots of effects on them. The straight amp models sound like the real thing. I’ve compared them next to a real JCM800 at my rehearsal space.

      I’ve just had a recent firmware update. Didn’t seem to change anything.


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
      David, maybe I missed it, but have you had any experience with the Tech 21 Fly Rigs?

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      • #78
        Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

        so I haven't / won't read this whole thread because who ****ing cares but is it really "better" technology?

        Tube amps from the 60s are still alive and kicking. Digital amps from the 80s and 90s are pretty much all broken and dead and useless.

        I don't think technology is "better" just because it uses more microchips and can do more things. If it needs to be replaced every 2-5 years, it's not worth paying $2000 for. My Sunn model T was $300, still has its original tubes and sounds better than every new amp I've bought for too much money since I got it.

        I think the "better" technology is the technology that works without failing or needing replacement for decades.
        green globe burned black by sunn

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        • #79
          Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

          Originally posted by Empty Pockets View Post
          I think the "better" technology is the technology that works without failing or needing replacement for decades.
          Tube amps lose for sure then. :P You've got to replace the tubes when using them regularly. Where they've got the edge is that a great many of them were built in the time that point to point soldering was the height of technology. Because of that, they're very easy for anybody with a soldering iron to replace parts in. A modern tube amp with a circuit board has no edge in reliability or longevity compared to a similarly constructed solid state amp.
          Join me in the fight against muscular atrophy!

          Originally posted by Douglas Adams
          This planet has - or rather had - a problem, which was this: most of the people living on it were unhappy for pretty much of the time. Many solutions were suggested for this problem, but most of these were largely concerned with the movements of small green pieces of paper, which is odd because on the whole it wasn't the small green pieces of paper that were unhappy.

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          • #80
            Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

            Originally posted by Empty Pockets View Post
            so I haven't / won't read this whole thread because who ****ing cares but is it really "better" technology?

            Tube amps from the 60s are still alive and kicking. Digital amps from the 80s and 90s are pretty much all broken and dead and useless.

            I don't think technology is "better" just because it uses more microchips and can do more things. If it needs to be replaced every 2-5 years, it's not worth paying $2000 for. My Sunn model T was $300, still has its original tubes and sounds better than every new amp I've bought for too much money since I got it.

            I think the "better" technology is the technology that works without failing or needing replacement for decades.
            EEPROM will leak its storage after 10-20 years but you can refresh the firmware a hundred thousand times before it loses the ability to store anything. Conservatively, if you had to refresh the firmware every decade, you could still get a million years out of it without any extra costs, unlike tube changes that are more frequent and expensive.

            You're right. The better technology works for decades without needing replacements. It's digital.

            Sent from my BlackBerry using Tapatalk

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            • #81
              Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

              Originally posted by GuitarStv View Post
              Tube amps lose for sure then. [emoji14] You've got to replace the tubes when using them regularly. Where they've got the edge is that a great many of them were built in the time that point to point soldering was the height of technology. Because of that, they're very easy for anybody with a soldering iron to replace parts in. A modern tube amp with a circuit board has no edge in reliability or longevity compared to a similarly constructed solid state amp.
              I think that the comparison was tube vs digital, not tube vs solid state.
              The only thing that a tube amp would survive better than a solid state is possibly an EMP.

              Sent from my Alcatel_5044C using Tapatalk

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              • #82
                Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

                The "flying leads" chassis-mounted pots in old tube amps trump the PCB-mounted pots on the new tube amps.

                Same with jacks.

                Hell, some of these new tube amps look like computers inside with ribbon cables and ****.
                Lefty Lounge Lizard's Guitars & Amps Extravaganza



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                • #83
                  Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

                  Also, try modding amp with a PCB (newer) vs. turret board (older).
                  Lefty Lounge Lizard's Guitars & Amps Extravaganza



                  Fastest ears in the West

                  COVID-19: The Moronavirus.

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                  • #84
                    Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

                    Originally posted by LLL View Post
                    Also, try modding amp with a PCB (newer) vs. turret board (older).
                    Yeah, but that's just because they're older. No reason you couldn't do a point to point solid state amp.
                    Join me in the fight against muscular atrophy!

                    Originally posted by Douglas Adams
                    This planet has - or rather had - a problem, which was this: most of the people living on it were unhappy for pretty much of the time. Many solutions were suggested for this problem, but most of these were largely concerned with the movements of small green pieces of paper, which is odd because on the whole it wasn't the small green pieces of paper that were unhappy.

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                    • #85
                      Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

                      Originally posted by LLL View Post
                      The "flying leads" chassis-mounted pots in old tube amps trump the PCB-mounted pots on the new tube amps.

                      Same with jacks.

                      Hell, some of these new tube amps look like computers inside with ribbon cables and ****.
                      Are ribbon cables inherently bad?

                      Sent from my Alcatel_5044C using Tapatalk

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                      • #86
                        Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

                        Originally posted by GuitarStv View Post
                        Yeah, but that's just because they're older. No reason you couldn't do a point to point solid state amp.
                        No, if you're willing to pay for the labor.

                        Sent from my Alcatel_5044C using Tapatalk

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                        • #87
                          Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

                          Why isn't there a digital amp/modeler out there with an iconic tone that everyone wants to replicate? In fact why are digital amps hell bent on copying the tone of iconic tube amps (or even not so iconic ones)? ..and why don't they ever really get there?. Answer that in a way that shows modelers in a more positive light (than tube amps) and you'll have the answer to the OP's question
                          "Less is less, more is more...how can less be more?" ~Yngwie J Malmsteen

                          I did it my way ~ Frank Sinatra

                          Originally posted by Rodney Gene
                          If you let your tone speak for itself you'll find alot less people join the conversation.


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                          • #88
                            Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

                            Originally posted by Demanic View Post
                            Are ribbon cables inherently bad?

                            Sent from my Alcatel_5044C using Tapatalk
                            Depends on whats traveling on them, but because ribbon cables conductors travel perfectly parallel to their adjacent conductors, they can induct noise into the signal more than a shielded conductor or paths where adjacent signals are moved to alternate path etc. A lot of little ribbon cables you see are power, grounds, and communication/control conductors -so no effect on signal.

                            These issues are what PCB designers and Electrical engineers get paid to mitigate of course. -if they do a good job -a ribbon cable is not a worry.
                            “For me, when everything goes wrong – that’s when adventure starts.” Yvonne Chouinard

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                            • #89
                              Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

                              Originally posted by ibanezrocks View Post
                              EEPROM will leak its storage after 10-20 years but you can refresh the firmware a hundred thousand times before it loses the ability to store anything. Conservatively, if you had to refresh the firmware every decade, you could still get a million years out of it without any extra costs, unlike tube changes that are more frequent and expensive.

                              You're right. The better technology works for decades without needing replacements. It's digital.

                              Sent from my BlackBerry using Tapatalk
                              absolutely laughable and ignoring my point completely. I said in my original post that my Sunn model T from the 70s still has its original tubes in it and sounds great. Line 6 amps from ten years ago are all broken down and crapping out. Sorry, you're just not correct in your assessment. Digital amps break as soon as they get hot and dusty. Tube amps from 60 years ago are still cranking up and rattling walls.
                              green globe burned black by sunn

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                              • #90
                                Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

                                I wonder how the current PCB-based tube amps will hold up 50 years from now. Back then, (and boutique amps today), they were made to be fixed, and parts were plentiful. Every town had an electronics guy that could understand how it worked and get it back working. These days, companies don't hold on to PC boards from discontinued amps for very long. My guess is that it is all part of the disposable culture.
                                Dave, Ambassador/Writer/Artist for Seymour Duncan

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