Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #91
    Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

    Originally posted by Mincer View Post
    I wonder how the current PCB-based tube amps will hold up 50 years from now. Back then, (and boutique amps today), they were made to be fixed, and parts were plentiful. Every town had an electronics guy that could understand how it worked and get it back working. These days, companies don't hold on to PC boards from discontinued amps for very long. My guess is that it is all part of the disposable culture.
    Yes.
    Lefty Lounge Lizard's Guitars & Amps Extravaganza



    Fastest ears in the West

    COVID-19: The Moronavirus.

    My Soundcloud

    Comment


    • #92
      Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

      My guess is they will still hold up better than the modelers.. ' PCB or not they'll need to be a lot more robust/better put together/higher quality etc considering the kind of voltage/heat that tube amps have to handle. I don't think a modeler needs to deal with much more of that stuff than an iphone..
      "Less is less, more is more...how can less be more?" ~Yngwie J Malmsteen

      I did it my way ~ Frank Sinatra

      Originally posted by Rodney Gene
      If you let your tone speak for itself you'll find alot less people join the conversation.


      Youtube

      Comment


      • #93
        Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

        Technology is everywhere. Doesn’t mean I want it in all my things.....I’d rather have a ‘69 Chevelle over a Tesla.

        Comment


        • #94
          Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

          I don't know- I'd like to know how the heat of tubes affects the PC boards over many many years.
          Dave, Ambassador/Writer/Artist for Seymour Duncan

          Comment


          • #95
            Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

            Originally posted by Mincer View Post
            I don't know- I'd like to know how the heat of tubes affects the PC boards over many many years.
            ....kinda obvious

            ...everybody knows that's going to increase the mojo bigtime
            "Less is less, more is more...how can less be more?" ~Yngwie J Malmsteen

            I did it my way ~ Frank Sinatra

            Originally posted by Rodney Gene
            If you let your tone speak for itself you'll find alot less people join the conversation.


            Youtube

            Comment


            • #96
              Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

              Originally posted by Mincer View Post
              I don't know- I'd like to know how the heat of tubes affects the PC boards over many many years.
              Heat generally isn't good for that stuff. Overall it probably depends on the amp layout and design of the cabinet; I'd think that something like a Marshall head would hold up pretty well over the years because the tubes are above the board and heat rises. Something like a Fender combo or Mesa Mark series has the tubes under the board which is a point against them, though they both tend to be pretty well ventilated in the back. The only problematic design I can think of is the original AC-30; the wiring in those looks like a rat's nest, the cabinet is pretty well sealed (compared to a Fender at least) and the top vents are tiny. I don't know if it's true, but I heard that Dave Grohl quit taking his AC-30s on the road because they were constantly overheating and breaking down.
              Originally posted by crusty philtrum
              And that's probably because most people with electric guitars seem more interested in their own performance rather than the effect on the listener ... in fact i don't think many people who own electric guitars even give a poop about the effect on a listener. Which is why many people play electric guitars but very very few of them are actually musicians.

              Comment


              • #97
                Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

                Mesa was one of the ones heavily advertising using heavier PCBs and thicker copper traces to make for more rugged PCBs. With proper ventilation, those can be more rugged than point to point construction.

                I used a Sundown amp that was pretty awesome... Until it became an electrocution hazard when multiple solder joints desoldered themselves in use. Point to point badly done can be unbelievably dangerous.

                A properly built PCB can outlast a well built point to point. But a well built point to point is easier to mod and repair.

                AC-30s are pretty infamous for problems on tour. IIRC, Brian May was taking something like 9 of them along, so he always had 3 working for his stage rig at any time... And they were modded with added cooling fans and vents. And still failed. Though some of that is his preference for Alnico Blues (two 15W speaker in a 30W amp, right at the edge of tolerance there, and then he hits the amps with treble boost and runs them all-out... recipe for constant speaker repair. And fried power sections if the speakers fail spectacularly enough.) Tough when your sound is built around a particular gear combination.

                Comment


                • #98
                  Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

                  Originally posted by Empty Pockets View Post
                  absolutely laughable and ignoring my point completely. I said in my original post that my Sunn model T from the 70s still has its original tubes in it and sounds great. Line 6 amps from ten years ago are all broken down and crapping out. Sorry, you're just not correct in your assessment. Digital amps break as soon as they get hot and dusty. Tube amps from 60 years ago are still cranking up and rattling walls.
                  You're avoiding a technical discussion completely and throwing out a single anecdotal example as if that settles it.

                  Why would a Line 6 from ten years ago be broken down? Why would it get hot if it doesn't have tubes? Why would there be dust inside the unit when most modelers are sealed, or if not, why are regular expensive tube changes considered acceptable maintenance but a cheap can of compressed air isn't?

                  Are you trying to make the argument that tubes don't need to be replaced more frequently than 50 years?

                  Sent from my BlackBerry using Tapatalk

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

                    i saw a few examples of digital modeling on display in videos from the last crossroads and they sounded great!! right up till they were side by side with a big tweed twin.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

                      Originally posted by ibanezrocks View Post
                      Why would a Line 6 from ten years ago be broken down?
                      Have you ever opened a Line 6 amp? Everything about it screams "CHEAP" from the thin PCB to the board-mounted pots and jacks. I'm not saying that tube amps are automatically better; Peaveys and Crates look pretty similar under the hood, and have similar reputations for poor reliability. It's more accurate to say that some things are built to last while others aren't, and most modelers fall into the latter category.

                      Originally posted by ibanezrocks View Post
                      Why would it get hot if it doesn't have tubes?
                      My laptop gets hot, but it doesn't have any tubes. Maybe there are other electronic components that give off heat as well, like CPUs or power amp transistors...

                      Originally posted by ibanezrocks View Post
                      Why would there be dust inside the unit when most modelers are sealed, or if not, why are regular expensive tube changes considered acceptable maintenance but a cheap can of compressed air isn't?
                      I think this says more about general build quality than it does about specific maintenance. Line 6 knows that modelers become obsolete pretty quickly in the grand scheme of things, so they don't bother building them to last. Their products are also designed to hit a specific price point.

                      On the other end of the scale I heard of a Soldano SLO owned by a studio in the UK. The studio flooded and the amp spent 2 weeks underwater, but after drying it out they fired it up and it still worked. The pots weren't even scratchy because SLOs are designed to be bullet-proof, and you pay for that.
                      Originally posted by crusty philtrum
                      And that's probably because most people with electric guitars seem more interested in their own performance rather than the effect on the listener ... in fact i don't think many people who own electric guitars even give a poop about the effect on a listener. Which is why many people play electric guitars but very very few of them are actually musicians.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

                        Would this be a good time to discuss the new modeling Twin and Deluxe?
                        Dave, Ambassador/Writer/Artist for Seymour Duncan

                        Comment


                        • Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

                          Originally posted by dystrust View Post
                          Have you ever opened a Line 6 amp? Everything about it screams "CHEAP" from the thin PCB to the board-mounted pots and jacks. I'm not saying that tube amps are automatically better; Peaveys and Crates look pretty similar under the hood, and have similar reputations for poor reliability. It's more accurate to say that some things are built to last while others aren't, and most modelers fall into the latter category.



                          My laptop gets hot, but it doesn't have any tubes. Maybe there are other electronic components that give off heat as well, like CPUs or power amp transistors... [emoji38]



                          I think this says more about general build quality than it does about specific maintenance. Line 6 knows that modelers become obsolete pretty quickly in the grand scheme of things, so they don't bother building them to last. Their products are also designed to hit a specific price point.

                          On the other end of the scale I heard of a Soldano SLO owned by a studio in the UK. The studio flooded and the amp spent 2 weeks underwater, but after drying it out they fired it up and it still worked. The pots weren't even scratchy because SLOs are designed to be bullet-proof, and you pay for that.
                          So we're comparing cheap modelers to expensive tube amps? Why not the modelers that actually show what the technology can do? If we're talking about which technology is better, we have to compare the best: we should be talking Helix and not Spyder or pocket pod.

                          Again, he's trying to push one example of a broken cheap amp onto the entirety of digital technology. It's an absurd strawman.

                          Sent from my BlackBerry using Tapatalk

                          Comment


                          • Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

                            Originally posted by ibanezrocks View Post
                            So we're comparing cheap modelers to expensive tube amps? Why not the modelers that actually show what the technology can do? If we're talking about which technology is better, we have to compare the best: we should be talking Helix and not Spyder or pocket pod.

                            Again, he's trying to push one example of a broken cheap amp onto the entirety of digital technology. It's an absurd strawman.

                            Sent from my BlackBerry using Tapatalk
                            High end modelers like a Helix, Kemper, or AxeFx are built like a computer because that's essentially what they are. Compared to a Spyder or Pocket POD the PCBs are heavier and the pots and other components are better quality, but they're still not in the same league as the "expensive tube amp". Amps like the SLO and many vintage tube amps were designed and built to last for decades while most amps built recently aren't.

                            I haven't tried a Helix, and I didn't care for the Kemper I tried, but I thought the AxeFx was awesome. The main reason I don't own one is because they're really expensive. The second reason is that I can get my Marshall serviced if something goes wrong, whereas a broken AxeFx makes a great (and very expensive) door stop.
                            Originally posted by crusty philtrum
                            And that's probably because most people with electric guitars seem more interested in their own performance rather than the effect on the listener ... in fact i don't think many people who own electric guitars even give a poop about the effect on a listener. Which is why many people play electric guitars but very very few of them are actually musicians.

                            Comment


                            • Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

                              Originally posted by dystrust View Post
                              High end modelers like a Helix, Kemper, or AxeFx are built like a computer because that's essentially what they are. Compared to a Spyder or Pocket POD the PCBs are heavier and the pots and other components are better quality, but they're still not in the same league as the "expensive tube amp". Amps like the SLO and many vintage tube amps were designed and built to last for decades while most amps built recently aren't.

                              I haven't tried a Helix, and I didn't care for the Kemper I tried, but I thought the AxeFx was awesome. The main reason I don't own one is because they're really expensive. The second reason is that I can get my Marshall serviced if something goes wrong, whereas a broken AxeFx makes a great (and very expensive) door stop.
                              Actually, if they would have been built like computers, you could switch standardized parts in them, easily re-install and retrofit software, upgrade and such. Then they would last.

                              But they are not.
                              "So understand/Don't waste your time always searching for those wasted years/Face up, make your stand/And realize you're living in the golden years"
                              Iron Maiden - Wasted Years

                              Comment


                              • Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

                                Originally posted by Jacew View Post
                                Actually, if they would have been built like computers, you could switch standardized parts in them, easily re-install and retrofit software, upgrade and such. Then they would last.

                                But they are not.
                                They're proprietary computers. My remark refers more to how the hardware is constructed, not the software they run.
                                Originally posted by crusty philtrum
                                And that's probably because most people with electric guitars seem more interested in their own performance rather than the effect on the listener ... in fact i don't think many people who own electric guitars even give a poop about the effect on a listener. Which is why many people play electric guitars but very very few of them are actually musicians.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X