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Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

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  • Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

    the SLO is a great amp but i think the older amps are a better example of lasting. there are plenty of 50's fender amps out there still running strong with a minimal amount of upkeep

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    • Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

      Originally posted by dystrust View Post
      They're proprietary computers. My remark refers more to how the hardware is constructed, not the software they run.
      Yea. I meant that too.
      "So understand/Don't waste your time always searching for those wasted years/Face up, make your stand/And realize you're living in the golden years"
      Iron Maiden - Wasted Years

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      • Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

        Originally posted by jeremy View Post
        the SLO is a great amp but i think the older amps are a better example of lasting. there are plenty of 50's fender amps out there still running strong with a minimal amount of upkeep
        Agreed. I cherry picked the SLO as an extreme example of engineering and build quality.
        Originally posted by crusty philtrum
        And that's probably because most people with electric guitars seem more interested in their own performance rather than the effect on the listener ... in fact i don't think many people who own electric guitars even give a poop about the effect on a listener. Which is why many people play electric guitars but very very few of them are actually musicians.

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        • Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

          Old amps had fewer components & simpler designs. Newer gen ones come with multi channels, eq & what not. These are good to buy in a region that has amp techs, US, UK, Aus are regiions that will have experienced amp techs spreadout widely, so fixing it is not difficult. Other parts of the world dont have an abundance of good techs that deal with tube tech & buying a single mesa head alone would cost 2-3 times the cost of modern top tier modelling, taxes & custom duties are a headache where i live.

          I have got great results with tech21 gear into a ss(digital) power amp into a speaker cabinet. The whole thing ended up being cheap & maintanence free so far. I would not go back to tube during this age of time, good to have one around for reference but for gigging there are better options as alternatives for me that are lighter & space saving too.

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          • Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

            Originally posted by dystrust View Post
            High end modelers like a Helix, Kemper, or AxeFx are built like a computer because that's essentially what they are. Compared to a Spyder or Pocket POD the PCBs are heavier and the pots and other components are better quality, but they're still not in the same league as the "expensive tube amp". Amps like the SLO and many vintage tube amps were designed and built to last for decades while most amps built recently aren't.

            I haven't tried a Helix, and I didn't care for the Kemper I tried, but I thought the AxeFx was awesome. The main reason I don't own one is because they're really expensive. The second reason is that I can get my Marshall serviced if something goes wrong, whereas a broken AxeFx makes a great (and very expensive) door stop.
            The most expensive part on an fractal pcb board is the processor, if it fails or the board fails, you ship the unit back to them for repairs. They replace the board or the processor, its no longer a door step. Would you keep a amp as a huge door step because the transformer failed?
            Gig a 50 yr old amp on regular weekly basis via air with interconnecting flights, how much will this cost because ata case will be required, that will raise the weight + luggage charges, also can it really survive such journeys for next 10yrs without repairs? Thats probably why giiging pros embrace newer modeling tech. Its about convenience first, followed by performance & then the sound to most of them. They have guys to dial in their modelers for them, something not everyone that buys these is capable of. I wouldnt buy one myself either because my needs are limited. Its easier to replace a fractal unit with another if it failed, its 50+ amp & fx unit, thats cheaper than replacing a single amp head that cost the same as it & heavy to lug around.

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            • Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

              Why would you eat a tofu steak that tastes 'identical' to beef when an actual steak is freely available in the next aisle?

              When digital modelling/solid state breaks away from cloning old voxes, fenders & marshalls & do something 'new' then they may bring value to the table.

              My opinion is why would I spend thousands on a kemper rig when I can get an ac15 and/or deluxe reverb at a similar price point, & like many have pointed out they don't become obselete & will always sound like a vox or fender

              The only worry is actual valves may go out of production or become unavailable one day but I don't see that happening in my lifetime
              Last edited by regan; 10-06-2019, 03:00 PM.

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              • Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

                Originally posted by Hank- View Post
                The most expensive part on an fractal pcb board is the processor, if it fails or the board fails, you ship the unit back to them for repairs. They replace the board or the processor, its no longer a door step. Would you keep a amp as a huge door step because the transformer failed?
                What do they charge to service a unit that's out of warranty or purchased used? And what does one do when they no longer make the boards or CPUs? I'm pretty sure that Dagnall hasn't made transformers since the early to mid 80s, but I can get a company like Mercury Magnetics or Heyboer to sell me a replacement transformer for a 70s Marshall. I'd be willing to bet that the original AxeFX is no longer repairable, and the Axe II will be there shortly if it isn't already.
                Originally posted by crusty philtrum
                And that's probably because most people with electric guitars seem more interested in their own performance rather than the effect on the listener ... in fact i don't think many people who own electric guitars even give a poop about the effect on a listener. Which is why many people play electric guitars but very very few of them are actually musicians.

                Comment


                • Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

                  Originally posted by regan View Post
                  Why would you eat a tofu steak that tastes 'identical' to beef when an actual steak is freely available in the next aisle?

                  When digital modelling/solid state breaks away from cloning old voxes, fenders & marshalls & do something 'new' then they may bring value to the table.

                  My opinion is why would I spend thousands on a kemper rig when I can get an ac15 and/or deluxe reverb at a similar price point, & like many have pointed out they don't become obselete & will always sound like a vox or fender

                  The only worry is actual valves may go out of production or become unavailable one day but I don't see that happening in my lifetime
                  Why? Because you get 100 amps + cabs + pedals for the price of one tube amp.

                  Several modelers include amp models that don't exist in the real world, it's just not a marketing point because most people buy gear to imitate someone else's tone, tube players included.

                  If all you want is one amp and you don't care about easy recording or low volume practicing, by all means a tube amp is the easiest way to get what you want. But comparing modeling amps to tofu is just a lame attempt to sound tough.

                  Sent from my BlackBerry using Tapatalk

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                  • Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

                    For me, the ease and weight of a Fractal for a gigging player is the reason I chose it. I don't use a ton of amps inside of it, but man, it is light and sounds great through every PA I've ever used it through. Festival soundpeople tell me that it is super-easy to mix, too.
                    Administrator of the SDUGF

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                    • Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

                      Originally posted by ibanezrocks View Post
                      Why? Because you get 100 amps + cabs + pedals for the price of one tube amp.

                      Several modelers include amp models that don't exist in the real world, it's just not a marketing point because most people buy gear to imitate someone else's tone, tube players included.

                      If all you want is one amp and you don't care about easy recording or low volume practicing, by all means a tube amp is the easiest way to get what you want. But comparing modeling amps to tofu is just a lame attempt to sound tough.

                      Sent from my BlackBerry using Tapatalk
                      I think technical limitations can work out great to fuel creativity.
                      "So understand/Don't waste your time always searching for those wasted years/Face up, make your stand/And realize you're living in the golden years"
                      Iron Maiden - Wasted Years

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                      • Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

                        This entire thread is sacrilegious....

                        Tubes are king!!!

                        Plus somehow I don’t see kids two generations down the line still getting excited about a Helix the way younger people are still digging vintage Fender’s, Marshall’s, Etc. today???

                        Maybe though, I’m sure Leo wasn’t thinking that people would be spending thousands of dollars for, & still playing through, his early 1950’s & 1960’s circuits nearly 70 years later?
                        I live in Northern New Hampshire, we shoot the things we don't understand here???

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                        • Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

                          Originally posted by Nostalgic Distortion View Post
                          This entire thread is sacrilegious....

                          Tubes are king!!!

                          Plus somehow I don’t see kids two generations down the line still getting excited about a Helix the way younger people are still digging vintage Fender’s, Marshall’s, Etc. today???

                          Maybe though, I’m sure Leo wasn’t thinking that people would be spending thousands of dollars for, & still playing through, his early 1950’s & 1960’s circuits nearly 70 years later?
                          I dunno about that.

                          I've seen kids these days getting excited about the awesome sound quality of . . . cassette tapes. :P


                          No telling what trendy fads will pop up in the future.
                          Join me in the fight against muscular atrophy!

                          Originally posted by Douglas Adams
                          This planet has - or rather had - a problem, which was this: most of the people living on it were unhappy for pretty much of the time. Many solutions were suggested for this problem, but most of these were largely concerned with the movements of small green pieces of paper, which is odd because on the whole it wasn't the small green pieces of paper that were unhappy.

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                          • Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

                            Originally posted by ibanezrocks View Post
                            Why? Because you get 100 amps + cabs + pedals for the price of one tube amp.
                            Who actually needs 100 amps + cabs + pedals? IMO for what I want you need a scooped BF type amp, a mid heavy Brit style amp couple of modulation pedals an OD, delay & wah, other genres may want another setup (jc120 & boogie for example) it's a cliche but tone is in the fingers, many albums (and indeed artists careers) have been achieved with as little as 1 to 3 amps. Of those 100+ amps 90% are going to be in the ball park of what I mentioned & the other 10% would not be usable to me aside from novelty value


                            Originally posted by ibanezrocks View Post
                            But comparing modeling amps to tofu is just a lame attempt to sound tough.
                            Nope, it's a fair analogy, both are products intended to synthesise/facsimile existing products which are readily available sorry to trigger you but it's not acting tough it's stating the obvious, as you said yourself
                            Originally posted by ibanezrocks View Post
                            If all you want is one amp and you don't care about easy recording or low volume practicing, by all means a tube amp is the easiest way to get what you want.
                            So buying steak/valve amp(s) is the easiest way to get what you want.

                            And you'll have what you want for life, I remember when the 1st Jurrasic Park was released everybody thought the special fx were incredible & indiscernible from real life, now 25 years later people can notice the flaws & holes, I wouldn't be surprised if in 25 years we'll lament 'Kemper' tones on to be classic records & think this would've sounded so much better if they'd just used a Marshall & SM57

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                            • Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

                              Originally posted by regan View Post
                              Who actually needs 100 amps + cabs + pedals? IMO for what I want you need a scooped BF type amp, a mid heavy Brit style amp couple of modulation pedals an OD, delay & wah, other genres may want another setup (jc120 & boogie for example) it's a cliche but tone is in the fingers, many albums (and indeed artists careers) have been achieved with as little as 1 to 3 amps. Of those 100+ amps 90% are going to be in the ball park of what I mentioned & the other 10% would not be usable to me aside from novelty value
                              This is exactly why I ended up with my Traynor. It does a pretty good BF type sound on the clean channel, and a decent lo-gain Marshall-y thing on the gain side. Pretty much checks all the boxes I want from an amp. And it still feels like option overload sometimes.




                              :P
                              Join me in the fight against muscular atrophy!

                              Originally posted by Douglas Adams
                              This planet has - or rather had - a problem, which was this: most of the people living on it were unhappy for pretty much of the time. Many solutions were suggested for this problem, but most of these were largely concerned with the movements of small green pieces of paper, which is odd because on the whole it wasn't the small green pieces of paper that were unhappy.

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                              • Re: Better technology-so why are tube amps here ?

                                Did I happen to mention the now discontinued Spidervalve?
                                Tofu crusted steak.
                                And before this is taken the wrong way, I like tofu.

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