Neural DSP Users?

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For anyone interested, I've been keeping a playlist of QC videos and update it as new ones come in:

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLjbWudLa8g0RVrlJe0MP714OawaycdGma

There will be another update today on release dates. If things hold as they are (no more delays) then Tier 1&2 orders should get billed in the next week or so, with shipments to follow and arrive by end of March and then retailers following pretty much immediately after that. I'm very much looking forward to getting this thing in-hand

This is the best demo I've seen so far.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GerBjilQyc&list=PLjbWudLa8g0RVrlJe0MP714OawaycdGma&index=5&ab_channel=Sweetwater

Can really appreciate where things are going. If next gen Helix doesn't have touch screen it will be dead in water. This is same price as full Helix, has touch screen, probably a good bit more processing, capture technology, etc.

I hope its not too tightly coupled to the online store.

I'm interested in the QC, but actually more interested to see what it does to Boss and Line6 next generation tech.

[Mincer]

Thing is, the next Helix is years and years away. The designers even said so. And they did a ton of research about touch screens, and decided a faster, more powerful processor is more important to most end users.

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Thing is, the next Helix is years and years away. The designers even said so. And they did a ton of research about touch screens, and decided a faster, more powerful processor is more important to most end users.

If you had asked me a month ago, I would have said that too. Being able to type in the patch names, without having to spin a dial and push next/back buttons, is worth price of entry. And being able to drag/drop blocks of patches on the device even more so.

Touch screens are dirt cheap now, I think the one on a G11 is from a smartphone.

We all knew the competition would catch up in sound quality. Now the question is can the market leaders catch up in UI?

[RexRemus]

Payment emails went out today, though there are multiple phases to the T1 & T2 deliveries. I think T2 will get billing emails next week, and shipments should all be out by early April at which point dealer units will start to ship.

[Top-L]

Payment emails went out today, though there are multiple phases to the T1 & T2 deliveries. I think T2 will get billing emails next week, and shipments should all be out by early April at which point dealer units will start to ship.

Must be exiciting for those in early delivery.

Did Sweetwater give any discounts on the list price?

[RexRemus]

Must be exiciting for those in early delivery.

Did Sweetwater give any discounts on the list price?

As far as I know - nope. Nothing. I should get my billing email next week, and hopefully get the unit the following week (or shortly after). After it's down to dealer logistics for when anyone else will get deliveries.

[Mincer]

I do look forward to the many 'comparison' videos that will be coming out in the next month.

[Top-L]

As far as I know - nope. Nothing. I should get my billing email next week, and hopefully get the unit the following week (or shortly after). After it's down to dealer logistics for when anyone else will get deliveries.

Did you get it?

[RexRemus]

Did you get it?

I did! Just this past Friday, have been buried in it most of the weekend. Any questions or whatever feel free to fire away!

Initial impressions - It's definitely a 1.0 product, but a very good one. Not without flaws but does what it needs to do quite well. I can't compare it against any other modelers/profilers directly but I don't see it being amazingly better or anything - in that when you get to the pinnacle of existing digital sim tech we're in the 90th percentile plus of "quality" and matching a physical amp - at least in a mix. So when it was 60%, it was very easy to tell the product that was 80% was MUCH better. Now it's like fighting over 2-3% differences and I think things are just good all around.

That being said - it IS good. It's very easy to get a solid preset dialed in, the included amps and captures and IRs are all quite well done. The FX selection is weak compared to the competition but I have no issues with the quality of what's there.

All that being said I've barely scratched the surface of the device, I plan to do some MIDI programming next weekend and just keep learning it. I haven't been as excited to just "play" as I am with this in several years. It's honestly a joy to play with.

[RexRemus]

[Top-L]

I did! Just this past Friday, have been buried in it most of the weekend. Any questions or whatever feel free to fire away!

Initial impressions - It's definitely a 1.0 product, but a very good one. Not without flaws but does what it needs to do quite well. I can't compare it against any other modelers/profilers directly but I don't see it being amazingly better or anything - in that when you get to the pinnacle of existing digital sim tech we're in the 90th percentile plus of "quality" and matching a physical amp - at least in a mix. So when it was 60%, it was very easy to tell the product that was 80% was MUCH better. Now it's like fighting over 2-3% differences and I think things are just good all around.

I still believe they all have their own sonic signatures, but they can all get the job done. I personally don't like the Helix but I know other people get great results with it.

The question is, how easy and how inspiring it is to use? I have always hated tweaking settings with a mouse/keyboard, and I'm sure there are others like me who want the hardware to be inspiring, so I believe the areas of biggest improvement, for all of them is in the UI. Touch screen is mandatory in 2021 imo. The QC ported a visual cab sim onto the device which is very cool. I'm curious if dragging the mics around on a virtual speaker is worthwhile or a gimmick? They could eventually have something like a version of Torpedo WOS in there.

I recently tried and returned a GT1000, largely because the UI was so bad. After using the touch interface of the G11, I just couldn't accept the GT1000. Even if it was the most amazing sounding box, it would have gone back. Technology moves so quickly you can't rest on your laurels.

That being said - it IS good. It's very easy to get a solid preset dialed in, the included amps and captures and IRs are all quite well done. The FX selection is weak compared to the competition but I have no issues with the quality of what's there.

All that being said I've barely scratched the surface of the device, I plan to do some MIDI programming next weekend and just keep learning it. I haven't been as excited to just "play" as I am with this in several years. It's honestly a joy to play with.

What were you using prior to the QC? I've been reasing the thread on TGP and the only "real" issue I've read about is a ground loop type noise in some setups. It will be interesting to see how quickly they can add effects. My cheap(ish) Zoom G11 has a broad selection of different effect types, because they have been building these boxes for 30 years. You would think that the NDSP people would be able to "find" some algorithms to flesh out the effect section. Unfortunately, many of the Chinese boxes like NUX and Hotone come out of the gate with a ton of effects, likely because the software is pirated from some hacked device. NDSP would have to do it legally.

BTW you posted some broken links.

[RexRemus]

I still believe they all have their own sonic signatures, but they can all get the job done. I personally don't like the Helix but I know other people get great results with it.

The question is, how easy and how inspiring it is to use? I have always hated tweaking settings with a mouse/keyboard, and I'm sure there are others like me who want the hardware to be inspiring, so I believe the areas of biggest improvement, for all of them is in the UI. Touch screen is mandatory in 2021 imo. The QC ported a visual cab sim onto the device which is very cool. I'm curious if dragging the mics around on a virtual speaker is worthwhile or a gimmick? They could eventually have something like a version of Torpedo WOS in there.

I recently tried and returned a GT1000, largely because the UI was so bad. After using the touch interface of the G11, I just couldn't accept the GT1000. Even if it was the most amazing sounding box, it would have gone back. Technology moves so quickly you can't rest on your laurels.




What were you using prior to the QC? I've been reasing the thread on TGP and the only "real" issue I've read about is a ground loop type noise in some setups. It will be interesting to see how quickly they can add effects. My cheap(ish) Zoom G11 has a broad selection of different effect types, because they have been building these boxes for 30 years. You would think that the NDSP people would be able to "find" some algorithms to flesh out the effect section. Unfortunately, many of the Chinese boxes like NUX and Hotone come out of the gate with a ton of effects, likely because the software is pirated from some hacked device. NDSP would have to do it legally.

BTW you posted some broken links.

I think the links are ok now? I refreshed and I see them.

Honestly, it's very easy to use and just play with ideas on the grid. You can certainly get bad sounds out of it, but that's mostly user fault than any of the models or captures haha. I honestly find myself more inspired to play than I have been in a long time. I WANT to play with it, which makes me WANT to play guitar - that's actually a huge win for me right off the bat.

The cabsim and mics are good, in the end, it's just a fancy representation of many IRs blended and swapped in as you move the mics around - the IRs reflect the mics and their positions on the appropriate cab. So if you value and believe in IRs in general, and have spent time mixing and matching varying mics and mic positions from those and/or on real cabs - then it's more or less the same thing. I guess my point is - they're not "faking" it in the sense of trying to artificially adjust EQ or whatever to make it dull when you move off the dust cap - it moves to a real IR with that mic at that position on that cabinet and the response is what you'd get. They've just hidden that behind an intuitive UI, and you can still load your own IRs if you prefer - they're just static (as you'd expect) so no fancy UI - though you can still use a pair of them and pan them per cab block.

Previously I had my old ADA MP-2 (that I still love) and have had a few borrowed amps here and there for a time (mesas mostly) but for most recent things and anything I've recorded recently it's all been ampsims anyway (several from Neural which is how I found the QC in the first place, but others as well). I found the convenience and capabilities of modern ampsims to just be really good, it's nothing at all like 10 years ago or even 5. So in a way, the QC is just a larger commitment/transition to an "ampsim in a box" mindset for me. It's more powerful than any single desktop ampsim and its standalone portability makes it super attractive to me for when I visit my friend in LA and we want to play - I can have "my" entire rig in a carry-on bag.

I'm confident Neural will get the FX situation sorted out - what's there is good, they just lack for options compared to the competition, but it's very new and as you said, I believe they are doing it the "hard way" and not trying to just ripoff something and get **** out the door. I respect that, and if it's really a huge problem today, it's got FX loops - plug your favorite pedals into it, or even your favorite VSTs from your DAW - you can loop that in as well. Sure that last one isn't entirely portable (it is if you bring a laptop) but still - if you're worried about recording mostly it's trivial to get all the reverbs and delays and modulation fx you want. it's not a fatal shortcoming.

Bottom line - the cloud stuff is both great and awful right now - that needs the most work no question. The unit itself as a box that makes guitar tones - it's a joy. Honestly most fun I've had with any piece of gear in many many years. You just get lost for hours playing with it.

[Top-L]

Bottom line - the cloud stuff is both great and awful right now - that needs the most work no question. The unit itself as a box that makes guitar tones - it's a joy. Honestly most fun I've had with any piece of gear in many many years. You just get lost for hours playing with it.

My interest in the product completely hinges upon their development schedule and how quickly they can address things.

As a point of comparison, the Headrush has been around four years and it STILL has a sparse effect section. They recently patched it with some new content, but its STILL really sparse compared to others. Because the effect selection is THIN, I don't seriously consider it. Not because there aren't many effects, but because the pace of the development shows its highly unlikely that they will be added. A box that HUGE should be filled with tons of effects. Its like a bus being powered by a four-banger.

Its not a given that the NDSP will flesh things out. I think they should license effects, that seems like the best path. They will have their hands full with the cloud and desktop control app.

[RexRemus]

My interest in the product completely hinges upon their development schedule and how quickly they can address things.

As a point of comparison, the Headrush has been around four years and it STILL has a sparse effect section. They recently patched it with some new content, but its STILL really sparse compared to others. Because the effect selection is THIN, I don't seriously consider it. Not because there aren't many effects, but because the pace of the development shows its highly unlikely that they will be added. A box that HUGE should be filled with tons of effects. Its like a bus being powered by a four-banger.

Its not a given that the NDSP will flesh things out. I think they should license effects, that seems like the best path. They will have their hands full with the cloud and desktop control app.

I agree with this. What I've seen of the people in charge there speaks to a high level of integrity and passion, but they still need to execute. That's the bottom line. The cloud stuff is especially weak right now - you can see what it might be, but that's a long way from where it is.

My belief in their FX capabilities lies in the fact that they've been able to deliver quite a few very good FX packages in and around their desktop plugins - they have the talent in house to do it, but how they manage those resources between plugins and the QC is going to determine how well things go forward. but they have proven they can do quality FX and at least have a stable of them to draw from and "port" to the QC - I realize it's not quite that simple, but at least the brainpower IS in-house assuming they can tap it properly and within reasonable time frames.

At this point there's nothing to do but wait and see what they can deliver. I am hoping they get some kind of feature expansion update out the door in the next month or so. They've already dropped a bugfix release so at least that's a moderately good sign.

[Top-L]

I agree with this. What I've seen of the people in charge there speaks to a high level of integrity and passion, but they still need to execute. That's the bottom line. The cloud stuff is especially weak right now - you can see what it might be, but that's a long way from where it is.

My belief in their FX capabilities lies in the fact that they've been able to deliver quite a few very good FX packages in and around their desktop plugins - they have the talent in house to do it, but how they manage those resources between plugins and the QC is going to determine how well things go forward. but they have proven they can do quality FX and at least have a stable of them to draw from and "port" to the QC - I realize it's not quite that simple, but at least the brainpower IS in-house assuming they can tap it properly and within reasonable time frames.

At this point there's nothing to do but wait and see what they can deliver. I am hoping they get some kind of feature expansion update out the door in the next month or so. They've already dropped a bugfix release so at least that's a moderately good sign.

Agree with all of this. Even if they have the talent in house, they should still contract development from someone who has experience developing plugins, unless their profit margins are so thin they can't afford that.

There are tons of free plugins, DAWs, etc that seem like they could be adapted. Should be a matter of porting code and building in new environment.

Whats not clear to me is the divide between their plugins and the QC. Why are the plugins not already in the QC? Those are highly regarded. There must be contractual restrictions or they are waiting for a larger business plan to come to fruition.

My gut tells me they plan to sell content to end users, and if the box is packed with effects/models, that will cut into their eventual profits. Or if they put content into the QC, it will cut into their plugin sales. So yeah, I do have an uneasy feeling about it.

Another thing this underscores, is that other new players like Hotone, NUX, Mooer, that have large selection of effects out of the gate, probably stole the code from somewhere (or were smart enough to grab generic algorithms in the public domain.) In fact Mooer was sued for stealing an algorithm from a popular boutique pedal. This tells me that most of the stuff is probably pirated.