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Head vs. Rack for me (?VHT?)

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  • #16
    Re: Head vs. Rack for me (?VHT?)

    Originally posted by PUCKBOY99
    No experience with the 2/90/2...I have a 2/50/2 & 50watts stereo is plenty for me.

    The only experience I have with KT88s is when I put them in my Hiwatt. HUGE HEADROOM.....that thing wouldn't break up at all.

    If you're kind of set on getting a VHT, try going to



    My experience over there is it's not as busy as over here...if you ask a question, be patient.

    There's a guy named SteveVHT that knows everything you'd want to know about them.....he'll pipe up & help you out
    Originally posted by PUCKBOY99
    I play a good mix of music, but mainly classic rock....nothing too over the top...

    I've heard that ENGL is super too.

    The PSA-1 offers a lot of useable amp "emulations"....if you play a wide variety of music, trying one of them would not be a waste of time.
    Yep, I'm not decided on which VHT to go for if I decide to go for one, but I'll make the decision based on sound, not power.

    There are a lot of preamps to try out, I guess I'll just have to try to score them used one by one and then let them back at the market if they're not for my liking. The market is just really tiny here, not so much going on used or even new.

    Thanks!
    There are two kinds of people in this world that go around beardless—boys and women, and I am neither one

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    • #17
      Re: Head vs. Rack for me (?VHT?)

      Originally posted by Loserchief
      IMO you just described an Engl Powerball(or Fireball if 60W is enough) or a Savage(120 or 60). Quality-wise Engls are top-notch handbuilt amps so no problems to expect from this side. Tonewise they sound somewhere between mesa and marshall(maybe a bit more on the mesa-side of things),have plenty of gain if needed and are tight enough for about anything(at least my powerball is but after trying the savage i think it should be the same). Four channels make them versetaille enough for a lot of musical styles allthough metal clearly is what they were designed for. And once you get one there's no need to update anything since those Engls just sound killer on their own.
      Engl rocks! :Headbang:

      no idea about prices in finnland but since Engl is a german bhrand it shouldn't be too bad.
      The ENGLs cost about the same here as in Germany, which is naturally a lot cheaper than in the US or Canada. They're really popular around here, really many bands use them while gigging too. I'll have to have a look at them, it would be great if I could find one amp that was 100% to my liking without having to put together a huge rack of different preamps and poweramps.

      Aren't the ENGLs really only two-channel amps with boost? How versatile are they? How good are they for stuff like Kreator/Stone/Exodus?
      There are two kinds of people in this world that go around beardless—boys and women, and I am neither one

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      • #18
        Re: Head vs. Rack for me (?VHT?)

        Originally posted by the_Chris
        If I were to buy a VHT tomorrow, it would be a 50/CL. I don't like having those extra options to mess with like separate preamp and power amps. I like just purchasing something the amp manufacturer knows will work well together. It's a tried and true amp that sounds great and won't break the bank.

        A rack setup will allow you to tweak your setup more than a regular head, but racks can be very expensive and can be a pain to carry around. The option of changing the power amp to suit different power tubes and voicings may be something that will make it worth it for you, I've just never found a need for it myself
        Thanks for your thoughts! What makes you take the 50/CL over the other VHT options? Over other amps, maybe?

        I'm not really that much of a tinkerer, swapping tubes and modding amps etc. Maybe the rack setup would be too much for me, I'll have to think about it.

        I think that I'd rather take a standard amp if it was good enough and affordable too. A rack system would be easier to build with time and cheaper to mod as well. Maybe it could adjust to evolving tastes better than a standard head as well. I really don't know.
        There are two kinds of people in this world that go around beardless—boys and women, and I am neither one

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        • #19
          Re: Head vs. Rack for me (?VHT?)

          Originally posted by WaR HeaD
          er....so, if you're going to buy a preamp and a pa for that price why donīt you try a triaxis and a 2:90 or a 2:50...if you were finding for versatility, thats your amp...8 modes, 127 memory banks (well you will really use 10, if you need to use 10 presets some day...) all the mark series sound there...for 200 bucks more...and its easy (really) to program

          i tried the marshall preamp and a couple more (the recto preamp also) and this one is the best iīve found...if you can, try it, its the best one (of course, imo)
          Well, Mesa stuff is far too expensive around here. A setup like that would be about 4000€ while the VHT setup is only 2500€.

          Do you think that the Mesa poweramp is better than the VHT one? If you do, why?
          There are two kinds of people in this world that go around beardless—boys and women, and I am neither one

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          • #20
            Re: Head vs. Rack for me (?VHT?)

            Originally posted by Johtosotku
            The ENGLs cost about the same here as in Germany, which is naturally a lot cheaper than in the US or Canada. They're really popular around here, really many bands use them while gigging too. I'll have to have a look at them, it would be great if I could find one amp that was 100% to my liking without having to put together a huge rack of different preamps and poweramps.

            Aren't the ENGLs really only two-channel amps with boost? How versatile are they? How good are they for stuff like Kreator/Stone/Exodus?
            Yeah right, they are in fact two channels but with the boosts(clean to crunch/low gain lead to high gain lead) the overall voicing of the channel canges and not just the gain level so it's more like four channels than like two channels with gain boosts. Imo you can get about any kind of metal tone out of them(kreator works great if you aks me). My powerball has lots of additional sound shapers extra to the channel's normal eq(seperate knobs for open and focused mids/depth punch knob/presence control), so the versaitillity is clearly given if you want it. Just look the exact features up if you wanna see for yourself.
            - 03 B.C. Rich Custom Shop Stealth EMG 81(n)/89(m)/60(n)
            - 04 Malmsteen Sig. Strat DMZ HS-3(b)/YJM(m)/YJM(n)
            - 05 Line 6 Variax 700
            - 08 Schecter C-7 Hellraiser Blackout N/B
            - 04 B.C. Rich NJ beast(Speedloader) SD Dimebucker(b)/Full Shred(n)
            - 99 B.C. Rich NJ Warlock SD Dimebucker(b)/Full Shred(n)
            - Clarity(by Johnson) Ovation Copy
            - Takamine acoustic(not sure abut year and model)
            -Engl Sovereign 100 Vintage 1x12 Combo + Engl Pro 4x12 (V30s)

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            • #21
              Re: Head vs. Rack for me (?VHT?)

              Originally posted by Johtosotku
              Well, Mesa stuff is far too expensive around here. A setup like that would be about 4000€ while the VHT setup is only 2500€.

              Do you think that the Mesa poweramp is better than the VHT one? If you do, why?
              well i can tell you about a couple things like, the control knobs...



              you can manage the eq drive, etc etc with digital precision (the only thing i can stand, cause the rest of the preamp is all tube), the eq of this preamp is georgeus, the dinamic voice control makes the tone curve to be more or less noticeable over the eq you have selected...its maybe dificult to use at first time, but once you get it, you can find EVERY tone you are looking for....another thing, the number of presets, more modes to base from than the other preamps...

              and finally because it sounds better....but thats a subjetive opinion, so for this one, that is the most important of course, there is no other thing that hear it yourself...examples of the sound of the triaxis are kirk hammet guitar solos (for recording...heīs not using a triaxis for giging) and john petrucci-dream theater records from day 1 to 1997 (falling into infinity)...this preamp has all of the mark series preamp sections so it goes from mark I vintage to mark IV super tight distortion (and using the drive and dinamic voice you can get a natural recto sound)...it works for everyting, but specially for rock-metal...

              other than that i canīt say anymore

              but yeah if it goes to 4000 there its a lot of money to spend, altought it is well spent...why donīt you buy it on the german musik store/musik produktiv (or whatever you want to buy....)

              btw iīm getting it anytime soon for 3000€

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              • #22
                Re: Head vs. Rack for me (?VHT?)

                Originally posted by Loserchief
                Yeah right, they are in fact two channels but with the boosts(clean to crunch/low gain lead to high gain lead) the overall voicing of the channel canges and not just the gain level so it's more like four channels than like two channels with gain boosts. Imo you can get about any kind of metal tone out of them(kreator works great if you aks me). My powerball has lots of additional sound shapers extra to the channel's normal eq(seperate knobs for open and focused mids/depth punch knob/presence control), so the versaitillity is clearly given if you want it. Just look the exact features up if you wanna see for yourself.
                Yep, I've been looking at the ENGL stuff for quite a long time already. Maybe I've just been too bored with all the hype and popularity, they really do deserve to be heard by me. Thanks!
                There are two kinds of people in this world that go around beardless—boys and women, and I am neither one

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                • #23
                  Re: Head vs. Rack for me (?VHT?)

                  Originally posted by WaR HeaD
                  well i can tell you about a couple things like, the control knobs...



                  you can manage the eq drive, etc etc with digital precision (the only thing i can stand, cause the rest of the preamp is all tube), the eq of this preamp is georgeus, the dinamic voice control makes the tone curve to be more or less noticeable over the eq you have selected...its maybe dificult to use at first time, but once you get it, you can find EVERY tone you are looking for....another thing, the number of presets, more modes to base from than the other preamps...

                  and finally because it sounds better....but thats a subjetive opinion, so for this one, that is the most important of course, there is no other thing that hear it yourself...examples of the sound of the triaxis are kirk hammet guitar solos (for recording...heīs not using a triaxis for giging) and john petrucci-dream theater records from day 1 to 1997 (falling into infinity)...this preamp has all of the mark series preamp sections so it goes from mark I vintage to mark IV super tight distortion (and using the drive and dinamic voice you can get a natural recto sound)...it works for everyting, but specially for rock-metal...

                  other than that i canīt say anymore

                  but yeah if it goes to 4000 there its a lot of money to spend, altought it is well spent...why donīt you buy it on the german musik store/musik produktiv (or whatever you want to buy....)

                  btw iīm getting it anytime soon for 3000€
                  It does really sound like a terrific unit, it's just too bad it comes with a terrible price tag! I'm afraid it's a bit too much right now, even with ordering from elsewhere. If I had 3000€ to spend right now, I'd probably just get an Ultralead or an Uberschall and be done with it!

                  One of my main ideas with building a rack has been to divide the costs to a longer period of time while still being able to buy the best. I'm also quite confident with my PodXT as a preamp, some of the headphone tones I've got really are great. Could it be even better with a high-quality tube poweramp? But, if a Triaxis were to come upon me on the used market in a few years, could I resist it? No, I could not!
                  There are two kinds of people in this world that go around beardless—boys and women, and I am neither one

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                  • #24
                    Re: Head vs. Rack for me (?VHT?)

                    Originally posted by Johtosotku
                    Thanks for your thoughts! What makes you take the 50/CL over the other VHT options? Over other amps, maybe?

                    I'm not really that much of a tinkerer, swapping tubes and modding amps etc. Maybe the rack setup would be too much for me, I'll have to think about it.

                    I think that I'd rather take a standard amp if it was good enough and affordable too. A rack system would be easier to build with time and cheaper to mod as well. Maybe it could adjust to evolving tastes better than a standard head as well. I really don't know.


                    It has some serious overdrive channels that I liken to a modded Marshall. VHT is one of the kings of articulate high gain channels. I'd take this one over the Pitbull 45 and the reason why I wouldn't pick an Ultralead over it is because I can get more power tube saturation out of the 50/CL at more reasonable volumes.

                    I'd personally spring for the 50/ST because it has a great clean channel (the CL version breaks up too much for my taste). The CL is right for you if you're a medium to high gain player and want some versatile distortion channels. There are only 2 channels on both of these amps, but I've found that too many channels can actually be a bad thing (I used to own a 6 channel Hughes & Kettner Triamp... so I'm speaking from experience here ). It's one of those amps that you plug into, find a great tone easily and just start playing; there really isn't a whole lot of tweaking needed.
                    Originally posted by kevlar3000
                    I learned a long time ago that the only thing that mattered regarding tone was what my ears thought.
                    Originally posted by Zerberus
                    Better is often the enemy of good
                    Originally posted by ginormous
                    Covers feed the body, originals feed the soul.

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                    • #25
                      Re: Head vs. Rack for me (?VHT?)

                      Originally posted by the_Chris
                      It's one of those amps that you plug into, find a great tone easily and just start playing; there really isn't a whole lot of tweaking needed.
                      And this is what I like about the 2/50/2 & GP3: I have the ability to tweak tweak tweak away, but plugged straight in & with the eq set how you like them, you get great tone right away on each channel

                      I think earlier you asked what the difference was between the CL & the rack option.....I think (I'm not sure) the rack option is just a stereo version of the CL or UL.

                      With that, if you can find a CL or UL for a decent price, I think you'll have a killer straight out of the gate.

                      Then you can work on the cab & not have to worry about all the other crap that comes along.

                      Guitars: Frankinstein TeleBird/Classic Vibe Esquire w/BG-1400/Martin 000-28EC
                      Amps: 3rd Power Dream Solo 4 '68 Plexi/Port City Wave 2x12
                      FX: Skinpimp Faceplant/Skinpimp 3OD/Flyin' Dragon


                      https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/fa...wn/id786464154
                      http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/seanhanley

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                      • #26
                        Re: Head vs. Rack for me (?VHT?)

                        If you are going with a rack unit. Go with either a Bogner Fish ( cause I like it) or my 1st choice, a Egnater M4 preamp ( try it and you will know what I am talking about) and a VHT 2502 loaded with JJe34Ls. Plain and simply put, there is not much that can touch a VHT, as far as power amps go.

                        If you are going with a VHT head. I would suggest the UL.
                        Egnater M4 (2) Recto, Blackface, Plexi
                        VHT 2502
                        (2) Randal XLT 4X12
                        (2) Jackson SL2H USA Soloist (SH-1n, TB-6b)
                        Jackson SL1 (Classic Stack, Classic Stack, TB-6b)
                        Keeley TS-9 Mod Plus & TS-9 Baked Mod
                        http://www.robertkeeley.com
                        Line 6 Echo Pro and Mod Pro
                        Chandler Digital Echo Delay

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                        • #27
                          Re: Head vs. Rack for me (?VHT?)

                          Originally posted by the_Chris
                          http://cgi.ebay.com/VHT-Pittbull-50-...QQcmdZViewItem

                          It has some serious overdrive channels that I liken to a modded Marshall. VHT is one of the kings of articulate high gain channels. I'd take this one over the Pitbull 45 and the reason why I wouldn't pick an Ultralead over it is because I can get more power tube saturation out of the 50/CL at more reasonable volumes.

                          I'd personally spring for the 50/ST because it has a great clean channel (the CL version breaks up too much for my taste). The CL is right for you if you're a medium to high gain player and want some versatile distortion channels. There are only 2 channels on both of these amps, but I've found that too many channels can actually be a bad thing (I used to own a 6 channel Hughes & Kettner Triamp... so I'm speaking from experience here ). It's one of those amps that you plug into, find a great tone easily and just start playing; there really isn't a whole lot of tweaking needed.
                          Ok, I'll have to try to try it out! It's a damn shame how they go for cheap out there in the US and the otherwise round here, especially when there really isn't no used market at all.

                          How comparable to the two distortion channels of the CL is the distortion channel of the ST? I'm not sure if I'd need a clean channel, but I'm not sure if I'll need two distortion channels either!

                          What is the 50 CL really compared to UL and CLX? Just less power and one less channel? Or are there really some bigger differences?

                          Thanks for your input!
                          There are two kinds of people in this world that go around beardless—boys and women, and I am neither one

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                          • #28
                            Re: Head vs. Rack for me (?VHT?)

                            Originally posted by PUCKBOY99
                            And this is what I like about the 2/50/2 & GP3: I have the ability to tweak tweak tweak away, but plugged straight in & with the eq set how you like them, you get great tone right away on each channel

                            I think earlier you asked what the difference was between the CL & the rack option.....I think (I'm not sure) the rack option is just a stereo version of the CL or UL.

                            With that, if you can find a CL or UL for a decent price, I think you'll have a killer straight out of the gate.

                            Then you can work on the cab & not have to worry about all the other crap that comes along.
                            Yes, the simple head option is really tempting, although I feel that the poweramp would be a more certain option, if there is such, for me. Making choices is getting harder and harder.

                            The UL would cost more than the rack here. The rack would cost 600-700€ extra to the 50/CL. The price difference between the UL and the CL is 1100€, a really surprisingly big one, if they're so similar.

                            Thanks for your thoughts!
                            There are two kinds of people in this world that go around beardless—boys and women, and I am neither one

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                            • #29
                              Re: Head vs. Rack for me (?VHT?)

                              Originally posted by Burkwieser
                              If you are going with a rack unit. Go with either a Bogner Fish ( cause I like it) or my 1st choice, a Egnater M4 preamp ( try it and you will know what I am talking about) and a VHT 2502 loaded with JJe34Ls. Plain and simply put, there is not much that can touch a VHT, as far as power amps go.

                              If you are going with a VHT head. I would suggest the UL.
                              Why do you recommend the 2/50/2 over the 2/90/2? Why the UL? I'll try and check the preamps out, thanks!
                              There are two kinds of people in this world that go around beardless—boys and women, and I am neither one

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                              • #30
                                Re: Head vs. Rack for me (?VHT?)

                                Originally posted by Johtosotku
                                Why do you recommend the 2/50/2 over the 2/90/2? Why the UL? I'll try and check the preamps out, thanks!
                                I prefer the 2502 over the 2902 because I liked the ability to run 6L6 in one channel and EL34s in the other. Although, in the end I loaded both with JJE34Ls tubes. Man, I could get some good saturation. I miss it. The 2902 is KT88s. Plus with the 2502 you are able to get some good power tube saturation at lower levels. The 2902 is a bit much, and it always seems like a peamp will add even a little more power to boot.

                                As for the UL. When I went to look at VHT head amps, the UL sounded the best to my ear, and I am usually a 6L6 or EL34 guy. I would go with either the UL or CLX though.

                                As far as choosing a head, the only advise I can give is to try them out. What you buy is what you get. At least with a rack unit you can always swap out the preamp. There are good and bad to both though.
                                Egnater M4 (2) Recto, Blackface, Plexi
                                VHT 2502
                                (2) Randal XLT 4X12
                                (2) Jackson SL2H USA Soloist (SH-1n, TB-6b)
                                Jackson SL1 (Classic Stack, Classic Stack, TB-6b)
                                Keeley TS-9 Mod Plus & TS-9 Baked Mod
                                http://www.robertkeeley.com
                                Line 6 Echo Pro and Mod Pro
                                Chandler Digital Echo Delay

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