The JJ "EL844" tubes...

[Ewizard]

There is a 33.33% chance that any given tube you buy whether it says JJ on it or not was actually made by JJ. So saying JJ is this or that is kind of just saying that 33.33% of the world's tubes sound that way. I don't disagree with your impression of them, but just be aware that if you buy a set of tubes that say Mesa, GT, or Fender on them, there is a high probability that JJ made them.

As to the wattage of amps, there is a bit of a misunderstanding of wattage and how it equates to volume. A doubling or halving of power will either increase the volume or decrease the volume by 3db. Now, 3db is not a huge amount. It is not enough to get you into trouble or keep you out of trouble. I would say 3db is only enough for the majority of people to notice a difference in level. 6db is where you really start to have obvious differences. So if you have a 20-watt amp, and you cut the wattage down to 2 watts, that would be roughly 3 generations of reductions or about 9-10db of volume reduction. The only way to get any quieter is to go to 1 watt, which would be about 12db worth of volume reduction.

As you can imagine, it is difficult to cut enough volume from the amp and keep it in the fun zone. Now, these don't say less wattage, they simply say less headroom. Their marketing suggests that you will reach saturation 25% sooner than a standard EL84. If that figure is true, then with an amp set to 2-watt mode, it should be able to achieve similar saturation at a lower volume than an EL84. This is probably a good thing for most bedroom players. If you don't have a wattage reduction switch in your amp, I don't see it being possible to really get into the fun zone at a reasonable volume with these lower headroom tubes, at least not significantly.

[Gold star]

I'm reading all around the "internets" now about the JJ EL844 tube.

Marketed as a "El84 replacement, that will give you less wattage, earlier breakup, and is a direct fit".

...

Sounds like something I could have an use for. But different people on different forums etc. have different opinions.

What are your thoughts about this?

I always run my 20w Blackstar on the "2watt" setting, and even then, it's too loud to crank- as I live wall-to-wall with a neighbor in an apartment.

Thank you for any answers and replies.

-Erlend

I have JJ EL84's on my 10 watt. never had a problem..the break up or overdrive/distortion is in the pre amp tubes usually 12AX7/ ECC83. that's where it occurs. At low volumes you turn up the gain knob more than the volume and that gives distortion at low volumes. In your situation you may need headphones-or find somewhere to play away from home...!

[Phantasmagoria]

Even among the NOS EL84's, there are different-sounding ones, right? Which are the most open, least mid-focused ones? I've struggled to find EL84's that don't have as much stuffy lower mids, TBH. I like TAD EL84-STR's for that reason, but I wouldn't mind finding something that sounds along those lines, just better.

I honestly like EL84's that are the least EL84-like.

6P14P-EV's are probably going to be your thing then. Way more headroom w/open mids/plenty of bass & treble/harder edged (without being harsh) etc....you will be hard pressed to get them to break up at all. I prefer the regular 6P14P's (without the EV suffix) as those are more like regular EL84's & the overtones are killer..

I have a bunch of EL84 amps and love the way they sound. Most of mine have either JJ's, regular 6P14P's or NOS RFT's (dark and low-middy like JJ's...but even thicker/warmer/better sounding...)

[FuseG4]

You can snag NOS EL-84's reasonably priced off ebay and you're not going to find a better sounding EL-84.

I've occasionally been burned by microphonic el84s on eBay and made a decision to stop rolling the dice

[JMP/HBE]

Even among the NOS EL84's, there are different-sounding ones, right? Which are the most open, least mid-focused ones? I've struggled to find EL84's that don't have as much stuffy lower mids, TBH. I like TAD EL84-STR's for that reason, but I wouldn't mind finding something that sounds along those lines, just better.

I honestly like EL84's that are the least EL84-like.

You would be talking about the inherent characteristic of the EL-84 tube as a whole. Its not the worlds best tube for guitar amps. Not a fan of that tube. Rock amps in my 45 yrs experience sound the best with EL-34 British & 6L6 American. And of those there are tons of CP tubes that sound terrible.

[Rex_Rocker]

You can snag NOS EL-84's reasonably priced off ebay and you're not going to find a better sounding EL-84.

Even among the NOS EL84's, there are different-sounding ones, right? Which are the most open, least mid-focused ones? I've struggled to find EL84's that don't have as much stuffy lower mids, TBH. I like TAD EL84-STR's for that reason, but I wouldn't mind finding something that sounds along those lines, just better.

I honestly like EL84's that are the least EL84-like.

[Rex_Rocker]

Rex do you have a current source for the TAD STR tubes? To me they sound more like a 6V6 that most EL 84's and last a good while but I can't find them anymore are they out of production? Ran the Mullards last time in my Boogie they sound great but don't last long.

I bought a couple of sets some months ago off a local shop. They had to order them for me, but I don't know where they got them from. I don't know if they are out of production, but I heard the Shuguang factory they are made in burnt down. I'll see if I can find the info.

*EDIT* they say so here: https://shop.magicparts.com/

https://audiokarma.org/forums/index....closed.896506/https://audiokarma.org/forums/index....closed.896506/

I honestly hope they are able to pick up production sometime soon. I don't want the tubes that I like to become hard-to-find.

BTW, these TAD STR's are the same tube as the Ruby EL84C.


Oh, and have you tried the TAD STR blackplates? I'm curious about those. I dig EHX ant Tung Sol EL84's better than Sovtek EL84's, and they seem to be sort of along those lines of the same design, just with a different plate coating. I wonder if the TAD blackplates are even more open-sounding than the standard greyplates. I don't find the greyplates all that 6V6-like, personally, since I don't find their bottom-end is bigger than EHX, Sovtek, JJ, etc., but I do find they have a lot less clutter in the low mids and some nice airiness to the top-end.

[JMP/HBE]

You can snag NOS EL-84's reasonably priced off ebay and you're not going to find a better sounding EL-84.

[Rex_Rocker]

I don't think JJ tubes are all bad. Haven't had any reliability issues with their preamp tubes. I have never had a preamp tube of theirs fail at all. Hell, ECC83S's have always had the least microphony compared to any other 12AX7 I've tried. That being said, they are definitely not my favorite when it comes to tone. Not as high-gain as everyone says they are either, IME. Their ECC803S's are pretty nice-sounding, though.

But their power tubes have had the most failure rate out of any others I've tried. In fact, I've never had any power tube fail that wasn't a JJ. Their E34L's blew a grid resistor in my old Peavey. I've had two EL84's of theirs from different sets fail in my EVH. Their EL844's were fine, but they didn't really sound all that great. Their 6L6's have been alright, but I don't like their tone either.

Their 6V6 sound nice. They are most open-sounding 6V6's out there. They're definitely not traditional-sounding 6V6's. I did have one blow up on me, though.

I am not a snob when it comes to tubes. I just don't usually recommend JJ power tubes. I don't have any 6V6 amps right now, but I do dig their 6V6's.

[Ascension]

Dull/stuffy/blunt adequately describes every JJ product ive ever tried along with arching/sparking & popping. Crap-o-la. Yet some people still rave about them, go figure. But some people rave about vaping and Heroin so ....

Feel the same way about JJ's for the most part but they do have thier place as they can really tame and warm up a overly bright amp . I still hate a full set of JJ's in most amps but in the right slot in the right amp they can work well in the Pre. The PRS amps were designed to run them and in those amps and they really sound good in V1. the JJ's I have are older tested and graded though.

[Ascension]

Yes, regardless of what tubes you put in it, you need to rebias it accordingly if the amp has an adjustable fixed bias.

There are many TAD relabeled tubes, but IME, TAD EL84-STR's are the clearest, least stuffy, most open-sounding EL84's I've tried. My EVH can easily get too low-middy, especially with the stock JJ's, but even with the brighter Sovteks or EHX's. Only the TAD's have made it sound manageable without too much stuffiness. So if you still think your amp is dull with those, I really wouldn't know what else to recommend.

Rex do you have a current source for the TAD STR tubes? To me they sound more like a 6V6 that most EL 84's and last a good while but I can't find them anymore are they out of production? Ran the Mullards last time in my Boogie they sound great but don't last long.

[Erlend_G]

Yeah, ideally I'd want some tubes with alot of ... sparkle, chime, liveliness to them. Some "edge". Brash or not; I think the amplifier can be on the "dull" side of things anyway...

happy for any tips coming in! .

[Erlend_G]

The amp is cathode bias so no need to worry about power tube bias. The ht40 mkii is adjustable fixed bias but the 20 mk II is cathode bias

thanks man!

[FuseG4]

Dull/stuffy/blunt adequately describes every JJ product ive ever tried along with arching/sparking & popping. Crap-o-la. Yet some people still rave about them, go figure. But some people rave about vaping and Heroin so ....

You know I'm starting to feel the same way about JJ tubes

They can be dependable and some people love the sounds but I think the ecc83s is pretty stifled sounding, the 6v6 has a deeper darker voice with more headroom and that's almost never what I want from a 2 6v6 fender amp. But! I can see many people wanting that.
And I've used the el84 a few times and they are reliable it seems but little nasal. Bright and crunchy when really going which is some people's bag but... This last time I bought el84s I tried mullard new production and they have less mids but a really pleasant warmth. Hard to describe as always but they are very musical and seem well balanced.

Used to be able to get Japanese el84s for cheap but the internet found out and scooped them up. I might try those Russian 6p14p-ev sometime. They seem popular right now but is it all marketing?


I haven't tried the frame grid JJ e88cc/12ax7, am interested in seeing if it is better than the ecc83s. To be honest I've never tried the long plate one either the 803cc or whatever but that's because sovtek lps has been good to me the few times I've sought out long plates

[FuseG4]

The amp is cathode bias so no need to worry about power tube bias. The ht40 mkii is adjustable fixed bias but the 20 mk II is cathode bias