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How many watts is enough?

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  • #46
    Re: How many watts is enough?

    There's this notion floating around that anything with a circuit vaugely resembling an AC30/15 with EL84's is Class A, perpetuated by manufacturers. Even an AC30, when you wind it up, ends up in Class AB operation. How in the world is 15 Class A watts 'louder' than 15 watts in Class AB ??? See Randall Aikens site if you have questions...

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    • #47
      Re: How many watts is enough?

      What es350 said... there are very few true class A amps that have more than one output tube.

      That said, lets get back to the real question... volume has a lot of factors other than just wattage. The amps tone stack and gain structure has a lot to do with it... then there is speaker efficiency and then there is the voicing of the amp. We have all played two amps with the same wattage rating,
      same tubes and similar speakers but one is WAAAAYYY louder than the other.

      I tried a Groove Tubes single at Myles Rose's house that was so loud it was almost painful. I think it had a 6V6 in it so it was running about 6 watts.

      Personally, my big amp is 30 watts. My small amp is 6 and I often use it in rehearsal with an 8 piece band... I'm looking to upgrade the transformers so I can use bigger tubes and take it up to 15 watts and I expect it will become my main amp.

      So what does that mean in your situation? Try them both. Crank em a bit. See how loud you can get and stay relatively clean. Pick the one that sounds best to you.
      royd
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      • #48
        Re: How many watts is enough?

        speakers have alot to do with it. TR with JBL's is the king of cleans for a reason-neither speakers nor amp give up anything. C12N's break up in Twins, and in many cases were blown because they couldn't handle the heat.

        If it has a vintage 30, then you should rock out without much of a problem.
        2004 50th Anniversary Deluxe American Strat, SETH-N BRIDGE, ANT 2 SURFER MIDDLE, ANT 2 DLX MINI HUM NECK

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        • #49
          Re: How many watts is enough?

          Hey all! Just got back from Virginia with the rest of my family, and just catching up on all the feedback so far. Thanks for all the advice! I'll be heading to Guitar Center to try out both sometime this week. So while on the topic of replacement speakers, whats the differences between them? The main ones I've been looking at if I don't like the speaker thats in the amp I buy (Most likely won't matter if I get the Traynor), are the Greenback, G12H30, and the Vintage 30. I know the Vin30 and G12H30 have a larger magnet, which makes it louder, but which one would you suggest for my needs of getting a vintage British rock tone? I know Marshall used the G12H30 in its cabinets at one point, and also the Greenback before that, so I'm leaning more toward those at the moment.
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          • #50
            Re: How many watts is enough?

            My 50watt seems to be right in a sweet spot for anoying the neighbors and still be able to be used for nighttime practice.
            Carvin custom strat (P-Rails/hotrails/single - Tuned Eb) -> Pod XT - - 6505+ Halfstack

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            • #51
              Re: How many watts is enough?

              Originally posted by Corbic
              Hey all! Just got back from Virginia with the rest of my family, and just catching up on all the feedback so far. Thanks for all the advice! I'll be heading to Guitar Center to try out both sometime this week. So while on the topic of replacement speakers, whats the differences between them? The main ones I've been looking at if I don't like the speaker thats in the amp I buy (Most likely won't matter if I get the Traynor), are the Greenback, G12H30, and the Vintage 30. I know the Vin30 and G12H30 have a larger magnet, which makes it louder, but which one would you suggest for my needs of getting a vintage British rock tone? I know Marshall used the G12H30 in its cabinets at one point, and also the Greenback before that, so I'm leaning more toward those at the moment.
              The GB and the G12H30 were used concurently by Marshall from the late 60's through the late 70's. Usually the GB was used in the standard 4x12 cabs desiginated model 1960. The G12H was used in the heavy duty 4x12 cabs designated 1982. The Vintage 30 is a 60 watt speaker introduced in the mid 80's, as a cheaper alternative to an Alnico magnet G12. It used the same magnet and cone as the G12H, but used a voice coil assemby with the same mass and materials as an Alnico.


              All three give Rock sounds. The GB is the British Blues Rock speaker. The G12H has a noticable lower midrange hump, and has been described as giving the 70's Kiss sound when used with a humbucker. However, this all assumes closed back cabs.

              In open back cab's the GB has been described aa a bit flubby in the low end, and the Vintage30 can be a bit bright. I don't find the GB as being flubby, but it may depend on the guitar too. I would say the G12H30 is the best bet, in an open back cab.

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              • #52
                Re: How many watts is enough?

                i'd go with an eminence wizard if you're set on the g12h's, so you get 75 watt power handling instead of 30
                Originally posted by gibson175
                metal zones are for pussies.

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                • #53
                  Re: How many watts is enough?

                  Originally posted by Davey
                  how loud an amp is is not really too closely based on wattage..

                  Well if Wattage doesn't matter I am taking my amp and going home.

                  Never had any luck gigging with less than 50w prefer 100w anyday and I'll take more if I can get it.


                  btw Corbic I have a Peavey XXX 120wt 2x12 combo 4 sale on Long Island. If you are interested let me know.
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                  • #54
                    Re: How many watts is enough?

                    Originally posted by drew_half_empty
                    rock & roll is loud, man. Jimmy Paige used a 200 watt fullstack. I don't see anyone givin him crap about that
                    They're up to 180w. Yeah, but listen to the DRAMATIC decline of Jimmy Page's tone after he got the heads modded. What was that thick, over driven sizzle became that clean, high endy sound. It's the big difference between the sounds on How The West Was Won and The Song Remains The Same.
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                    • #55
                      Re: How many watts is enough?

                      i thought his tone on the soundtrack to the song remains the same was friggin killer
                      Originally posted by gibson175
                      metal zones are for pussies.

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                      • #56
                        Re: How many watts is enough?

                        Originally posted by Corbic
                        Hey all, as some of you know I've been looking for a tube amp, and after some great advice from everyone here (thanks!), I'm stuck between a Peavey Classic 30 and a Traynor YCV20 combo. Both are a 1X12 combo, with a master volume and reverb. Now the Peavey is 30 watts, and comes with a Blue Marvel speaker. Unless the speaker was incredibly great I'd plan on changing it to a Greenback speaker or G12H30. The Traynor is 15 watts, Class A, with a Greenback speaker standard. They are both around the same price, the Traynor being only a little bit more. Now I'd be using whichever one I get for practice at home, with my fledgeling band, and eventually (and hopefully) some small shows. So here's my question : how many watts is enough for that? 15 or 30? Thanks!
                        I'd say 30, because you can turn the volume down at home, but you'll need some wattage to put out in concert, whether mic'd or not. Hope that helps!
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                        • #57
                          Re: How many watts is enough?

                          Originally posted by The Golden Boy
                          They're up to 180w. Yeah, but listen to the DRAMATIC decline of Jimmy Page's tone after he got the heads modded. What was that thick, over driven sizzle became that clean, high endy sound. It's the big difference between the sounds on How The West Was Won and The Song Remains The Same.
                          I have some questions about this. What kind of mods are going on with Page's Marshalls? Is ~180 watts at clipping just the result of going from EL34 to KT88? The stock metal panel 1959's put out 170-180 watts max, distorting, with EL34's. Output at clipping was usually about 115 watts with EL34's, and it's the clean output that tube amps are rated at. Putting in KT88's would increase the clean head room to the point that amp wouldn't start clipping until almost max output.

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                          • #58
                            Re: How many watts is enough?

                            I've used my Mesa 20/20 extensively at home, practice, small gigs, large gigs and outdoor gigs. I've never been short on power. I hear alot of talk about small wattage el84 amps not having enough headroom or power. Either I'm not really picky or my ears are no good because my sound on my clean channel has always been great. Anyway I've used my Mesa and I've also used a Hughes&Kettner Edition Tube 20 which is another excellent amp(1x12 combo). I usually run direct with an ADA microcab II and use a 4x12.
                            Just my experience. Hope it helps some.
                            !

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