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What do you think of this self built Fender ?

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  • SirJackdeFuzz II
    replied
    Originally posted by jeremy View Post
    dont jumper the inputs. plug into one of them, and turn that volume up to 2 and turn the other channels volume all the way up. larry carlton recorded some of the best tones ever with a 5e3 on 2 or 3
    Understood.

    Gonna try it after work.
    Thanks Jeremy.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ewizard
    replied
    The interactive volume controls is one of the neat things about the 5E3!

    Leave a comment:


  • jeremy
    replied
    dont jumper the inputs. plug into one of them, and turn that volume up to 2 and turn the other channels volume all the way up. larry carlton recorded some of the best tones ever with a 5e3 on 2 or 3

    Leave a comment:


  • SirJackdeFuzz II
    replied
    Originally posted by jeremy View Post
    very cool, look forward to your thoughts once you get to know it


    https://forum.seymourduncan.com/foru...uild-questions

    I did not know that a 5E3 has virtually zero head room.
    Mine, has a clean'ish tone up to 1.5, and then goes into a heavy crunch almost immediately.
    At 2, on the dial, it is far past a light crunch already. (and this is with a Tele)
    I will play with a jumper'ed inputs after work tonight.

    Leave a comment:


  • jeremy
    replied
    very cool, look forward to your thoughts once you get to know it

    Leave a comment:


  • SirJackdeFuzz II
    replied
    Got the amp yesterday.
    Gonna plug in today - VERY EXCITED !

    Leave a comment:


  • SirJackdeFuzz II
    replied
    AGAIN . . . fantastic and insightful info.
    Very informative.
    Thank you very much Ewizard

    Leave a comment:


  • Ewizard
    replied
    No, but I could guess that they are likely a China set of trannies. That is not a bad thing, they are just not as reliable or consistent as many USA-made units. Unfortunately, Classic Tone has gone out of business and they don't look like CT branded units. The ones you have will be as good as any amp made in china ( which is most of them... ).

    I believe that transformers are a bit of an inflated selling point for an amp. They are all made just as they were 60+ years ago. And you cannot convince me that the metallurgy of today is worse than it was 60 years ago... That being said, what makes a good transformer to you, me, or anyone else? A working one is what. I have played with Mercury, Classic tone Heyboyer, and cheap China units and you know what the difference was between them? They each sounded slightly different, but they all worked and none was appreciably better than the other. Every manufacturer today says they have a " custom made " O.T. It's a crock of bull crap. They do in fact have a custom Tranny set, one that was built to their spec and has their name slapped on it. You know what else has a spec and you can put your name on? A China set of Trannies that don't come branded and are made for the amp du jour you are building. I bought a Classic Tone O.T. to replace the China unit I was prototyping my amp around and there was no difference in sound or quality. In fact, the China unit was made a little more balanced on the two primaries ( the resistance between each primary lead to the Center Tap was more equal ) than the CT unit was. The China unit has a plastic bobbin and the CT was waxed paper. Absolutely no difference between them sound or performance wise.

    Transformers are expensive and should last for the life of the amp. So there generally isn't any reason to go out and buy 5 different O.T.'s to try and get a better tone from your amp with. So the manufacturers shroud the market in mystery, buzzwords, and other selling points to make theirs be the first and the only one you purchase. Amp makers need a way to sell their amp and what better way than to make you believe their transformer set is special and you can't get another like it. The whole thing about the O.T. being the heart of the amp and all. A custom transformer set is simply made to the vendor's spec and has perhaps a higher level of consistency between each set. All this means is that the transformer was made to suit that amp and is made to a tighter tolerance than perhaps other off-the-shelf units.

    An O.T. has a primary impedance and there is a range or tolerance it can be made within to suit a particular tube type or design goal. An output tube has an ideal range of primary impedance that it wants to see from the O.T. Where the O.T.'s primary resistance sets in that range can have a pretty large effect on the sound of the amp. This is why the sound of the amp changes a little when you use the wrong impedance setting on the amp for the speaker cab you have. The secondary of the O.T. ( which includes your speaker load ) is reflected through the transformer onto the tubes. This reflection is based on a ratio/conversion and changes how the tubes operate/sound. Often the only major difference between one output transformer and another is the primary impedance. A difference of a few ohm's can change things quite a bit. What sounds better is in the ear of the beholder.

    Does a Mercury Magnetics transformer set sound better than a China-made set? It better, the MM set probably costs 3X as much! The construction of the unit does have a small ( read that as perhaps only just audible ) impact on the overall sound. The single largest impact on the sound will be the primary impedance though. If you have a set made with considerably more iron content than another, you may also notice a change all else being the same. Like most things, a transformer is the sum of all parts and there are not too many parts in a transformer to change. So if two different transformers from two different companies are made to relatively the same spec, they should sound very close to the same if not identical. When you start changing every aspect of how a transformer is made vs. another for the same amp design, there will be more evident changes in sound, but whether it actually sounds better is up to you.

    I think O.T swapping is a slippery slope. You can spend a lot of money to only get a small change and you may or may not like it. You can spend Mercury Magnetics money and it may be better than the original, but you will have spent half the price or the amp to get that little bit better, or perhaps not? I always suggest going with what your budget allows. Like most things, you tend to get what you pay for. I'm not saying MM is better, they have the largest marketing budget and their units cost more as a result, but if deciding between a Classic Tone, a Heyboer, an Edcor, or a Mercury Magnetics, go with the one that best meets the design needs of the amp at hand first and then go with the highest dollar your budget will allow second.

    You hear all those stories about Ken Fischer, Dumble, and others alike that reject 30% of the components they receive because they don't sound right yadda yadda, well that is likely them slightly embellishing it a little and also very likely them trying to get the sound they want from the amp and having to change half the stuff out to finally find the part that made the difference they needed. I wouldn't find it hard to believe that an O.T. could be the culprit for what makes an amp sound this or that enough to go searching for a solution. On the other hand though, if the shop was 100* the day you fell in love with the sound of the amp you made that day and the next day the shop was 60* and you weren't happy with the sound of the next amp you built, it could simply be the temperature of the shop and nothing else. So many variables come into play.

    Leave a comment:


  • SirJackdeFuzz II
    replied
    Originally posted by Ewizard View Post
    All in all, the amp appears to be made well enough and is built with above-average quality components. There is no reason it should sound bad, but not actually being able to hear it, who knows for certain. Being a kit amp made by hand, I would value that thing at around $400 - $500 used as it appears to be. If it were new, I would expect it to be around $600-$700 if there is no cabinet. If it were a full-on combo or came with a head cabinet, I can see it easily going between $1,200 to $1,500. It is likely to be better than anything Fender currently puts out in that model range.
    Can you ID the transformers ?
    Does it look like semi decent units ?

    Leave a comment:


  • SirJackdeFuzz II
    replied
    Originally posted by Ewizard View Post
    The build itself looks decent. The components are of normal grade. Orange drops are not all they are cracked up to be if you ask me but are better than cheap China versions. The PS, HT caps don't look to be high-grade F&T quality but are not cheap IC brand either. There is a little bit of slop in the wiring, which is to say it could be cleaner, but it is still better than most original 5E3's that made it out of Fender's shop. There appears to be metal film resistors where it is best suited and the rest of the resistors are either carbon film or MF, but likely not carbon composition. Some prefer CC over CF or MF resistors, but MF is honestly the best all-around. MF is quieter, flameproof, more stable to temperature, and despite folklore, does not sound bad. The amp is loaded with JJ tubes, which I am OK with. I like JJ for the most part. I have had some tubes from them that are a little off but they have been more than reliable for me. Unless you go with NOS tubes, I say go with Genelex or JJ's. If you go with any other brand, well there is a 33% chance it was made by JJ anyway.

    All in all, the amp appears to be made well enough and is built with above-average quality components. There is no reason it should sound bad, but not actually being able to hear it, who knows for certain. Being a kit amp made by hand, I would value that thing at around $400 - $500 used as it appears to be. If it were new, I would expect it to be around $600-$700 if there is no cabinet. If it were a full-on combo or came with a head cabinet, I can see it easily going between $1,200 to $1,500. It is likely to be better than anything Fender currently puts out in that model range.
    GREAT, GREAT INFO . . . thank you very much Ewizard

    Leave a comment:


  • SirJackdeFuzz II
    replied
    Originally posted by beaubrummels View Post

    12AX7 has an amplification factor of 100, so it will lower the headroom by putting relatively more signal through the amp. 12AY7 has an amplification factor of 45, by way of comparison.
    GREAT info . . . deff keeping this in mind when i plug into the amp.
    Much Appreciated !!!

    Leave a comment:


  • Ewizard
    replied
    The build itself looks decent. The components are of normal grade. Orange drops are not all they are cracked up to be if you ask me but are better than cheap China versions. The PS, HT caps don't look to be high-grade F&T quality but are not cheap IC brand either. There is a little bit of slop in the wiring, which is to say it could be cleaner, but it is still better than most original 5E3's that made it out of Fender's shop. There appears to be metal film resistors where it is best suited and the rest of the resistors are either carbon film or MF, but likely not carbon composition. Some prefer CC over CF or MF resistors, but MF is honestly the best all-around. MF is quieter, flameproof, more stable to temperature, and despite folklore, does not sound bad. The amp is loaded with JJ tubes, which I am OK with. I like JJ for the most part. I have had some tubes from them that are a little off but they have been more than reliable for me. Unless you go with NOS tubes, I say go with Genelex or JJ's. If you go with any other brand, well there is a 33% chance it was made by JJ anyway.

    All in all, the amp appears to be made well enough and is built with above-average quality components. There is no reason it should sound bad, but not actually being able to hear it, who knows for certain. Being a kit amp made by hand, I would value that thing at around $400 - $500 used as it appears to be. If it were new, I would expect it to be around $600-$700 if there is no cabinet. If it were a full-on combo or came with a head cabinet, I can see it easily going between $1,200 to $1,500. It is likely to be better than anything Fender currently puts out in that model range.

    Leave a comment:


  • beaubrummels
    replied
    Originally posted by SirJackdeFuzz II View Post

    I take it the 12ax7 will give the amp more 'gain', Jeremy ?
    12AX7 has an amplification factor of 100, so it will lower the headroom by putting relatively more signal through the amp. 12AY7 has an amplification factor of 45, by way of comparison.

    Leave a comment:


  • SirJackdeFuzz II
    replied
    Originally posted by jeremy View Post
    looks good but the proof is in how it sounds. 5e3 were "cheap" fender amps at the time, they have their quirks but are fantastic for what they are.
    12ay7 in v1 or 12ax7?
    the recto tube looks big for a 5y3.
    victoria makes great amps but they come with that cost as well and part of that is the assurance that you are getting a great amp
    I take it the 12ax7 will give the amp more 'gain', Jeremy ?

    Leave a comment:


  • SirJackdeFuzz II
    replied
    Originally posted by JOLLY View Post
    It looks a hell of a lot better than if I did it.

    Leave a comment:

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