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Mster volume vs power soak.

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    Benjy_26
    25's Nemesis

  • Benjy_26
    replied
    Originally posted by Demanic View Post
    I can max out my 5 watt Picovalve through my 1x12 cab. But it usually sounds better around 5 or 6 on the master volume.

    Sent from my SM-A115A using Tapatalk
    I guess it depends on the cab/speakers.

    I can keep up with a drummer and bass player at semi-quiet jam sessions with my Lil Night Train. I have no cleans, but I can poke through.

    Leave a comment:

  • Demanic
    PenultimateTone Member

  • Demanic
    replied
    Originally posted by Benjy_26 View Post
    Bedroom volumes?

    Get a modeler. Even a 1 watt tube amp can be pretty loud when you open it up.

    I guess it depends on how loud your bedroom is, too...
    I can max out my 5 watt Picovalve through my 1x12 cab. But it usually sounds better around 5 or 6 on the master volume.

    Sent from my SM-A115A using Tapatalk

    Leave a comment:

  • Benjy_26
    25's Nemesis

  • Benjy_26
    replied
    Bedroom volumes?

    Get a modeler. Even a 1 watt tube amp can be pretty loud when you open it up.

    I guess it depends on how loud your bedroom is, too...

    Leave a comment:

  • idsnowdog
    Imperator of Indignation

  • idsnowdog
    replied
    Your speaker efficiency also determines your volume level. Higher efficiency is louder while a lower efficiency speaker is quieter. So a lower efficiency, lower wattage speaker may break up at lower volume than a higher efficiency speaker. Honestly, I think that most attenuaters sound worse than low quality distortion pedals.
    idsnowdog
    Imperator of Indignation
    Last edited by idsnowdog; 01-14-2022, 03:54 PM.

    Leave a comment:

  • Ewizard
    Ultimate Tone Member

  • Ewizard
    replied
    There is really no way to have your cake and eat it too. If you want the pushed amp sound and feel, you MUST have it connected to real speakers and running at blistering levels. A close second ( and when I say close, I mean very close ) is to get something like the Two Notes Captor X! It allows you to remove the speakers from the equation entirely and have about as close to the real deal as you can get without actually having it.

    As with most attenuators, the Two Notes Captor X being a reactive load device still does not work well with high levels of volume reduction when played into a real speaker.

    The modern trend in making guitar amps sound great at lower volumes is amazing if you ask me. I am a Live Sound Engineer, and for 20 years loud guitars have always been an issue in the smaller venues I have worked at. The lunchbox, low wattage craze is a blessing as it almost instantly brought the levels down to almost being too low. The unfortunate thing is that the lunchbox amps have only just started being built and designed more like their bigger brethren; at nearly the same price... The good thing is that at least the idea and desire for lower wattage alternatives is strong.

    I think the next frontier is going to be amps similar in function as the Revv G and D-20 series amps with built-in speaker loads and IR options. The design concept is novel and worthy, the challenge is making them in such a way that it can appeal to a broader market than only those invested in Two Notes, or some other format. I think once the IR platform is somewhat standardized and you can use any IR in any loader, then we will see a larger trend for this technology. I feel that right now all the different companies are trying to forge their own IR technology to be the best, forgetting that many people are kind of over the brand loyalty thing. Not too many people are buying 100% into a single brand these days.

    For your situation though, I think you would be best served by getting a Two Notes Captor X, it is the drone you are looking for.

    Leave a comment:

  • LLL
    Mojo's Minions

  • LLL
    replied
    Originally posted by waltschwarzkopf View Post

    I didn’t forget! I just didn’t know they existed until now… So I guess this load boxed provide a “load” that will replace the speaker and let you connect other things? Sounds cool to me. What is “slaving”? Is this connecting one amps pre-amp to another’s power amp?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Yes with slaving, also taking one entire amp, using load box, taking line out level signal and putting into 2nd amp regular guitar input, or 2nd amp (poweramp).

    Leave a comment:

  • waltschwarzkopf
    Ultimate Tone Member

  • waltschwarzkopf
    replied
    Originally posted by LLL View Post
    OP you're forgetting three other concepts (some of which has been touched upon already):

    - load box with iRs into poweramp with wide range speakers
    - load box into DAW with iRs using DAW monitors
    - slaving
    I didn’t forget! I just didn’t know they existed until now… So I guess this load boxed provide a “load” that will replace the speaker and let you connect other things? Sounds cool to me. What is “slaving”? Is this connecting one amps pre-amp to another’s power amp?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    Leave a comment:

  • PFDarkside
    of the Forum

  • PFDarkside
    replied
    The best bet is a little of each, some master volume (Post-PI for Marshall) some attenuator less efficient speakers and the understanding that tube amps sound good loud.

    Leave a comment:

  • LLL
    Mojo's Minions

  • LLL
    replied
    OP you're forgetting three other concepts (some of which has been touched upon already):


    - load box with iRs into poweramp with wide range speakers
    - load box into DAW with iRs using DAW monitors
    - slaving

    all three use a load box


    Keeping the master volume low de-balls your amp.

    Attenuators are only good a few -dBs down; after that they squash the signal

    Leave a comment:

  • eclecticsynergy
    Mojo's Minions

  • eclecticsynergy
    replied
    Attenuators let the output tubes work harder which does add to the drive texture and the touch response.
    However my experience has been that passive attenuators are not ideal for dropping a pushed amp down to bedroom volume.

    I used the Scholz Powersoak all through the 80s and it was great for taking a few dBs off the stage volume. But it was only useful on the loudest few notches. If you tried to bring the volume down any more than that the tone suffered a lot.

    First of all, it was a passive resistive load and didn't interact with the output transformer. At higher volume, the speakers were still active enough to let the amp breathe. But when they were essentially removed from the system, the "dead" flattened out the interaction.
    Nowadays there are active attenuators designed to load the transformer more like a live speaker would.
    I think those must work better but I haven't had a lot of hands on experience with them.

    Secondly, speaker breakup itself is an essential element of the live tone, not just amp interaction.
    When the speakers weren't working hard, their character and feel was quite different.

    There are active attenuators which use impulse responses to approximate the EQ curve of pushed speakers.
    Whether or not they have the same feel under the fingers is open to debate.
    IMO sheer volume is a significant factor; without that the neck wood just won't be coming alive in the same way.
    Maybe if you used a passive radiator to excite vibrations in the neck... But that isn't really very practical

    Still, I think the closest you'll get is one of the active attenuators that reduces level to zero, applies IRs to the signal, and then reamplifies it using a clean solid state power amp.
    That way you can use headphones or studio monitors (or your stereo) and remove the cabinet from the equation completely.

    It's also true that some modern amp designs use a much better form of master volume.
    I can dial my Friedman down to bedroom volume and it still has great tone.
    Of course way I don't get to feel the guitar come alive that way, or hear the speakers starting to break up.
    But while it might not be the full experience, it's plenty good enough for playing in the living room.

    I have a couple of different attenuators - a Jet City, a Weber MiniMass that uses an actual speaker coil, and the old Powersoak.
    But I don't use 'em at home.

    Leave a comment:

  • waltschwarzkopf
    Ultimate Tone Member

  • waltschwarzkopf
    started a topic Mster volume vs power soak.

    Mster volume vs power soak.

    Hello, World!

    I’ve been thinking about a way to get natural OD at bedroom volumes and was thinking about the following.

    Although both, the master volume and power soak, reduce the output volume, they operate in very different ways.

    The master volume, on one hand, sends some of the pre-amp current to ground, and let’s through the “needed” amount to the power amp, resulting in a lower volume. (Let’s assume there there is no power soak connected)

    On the other hand, a power soak, will dissipate some of the current after the output transformer, meaning the the speaker will receive only a fraction of this and therefore have less volume. (Let’s assume that there is no master volume here)

    Some argue that a power soak “sounds better” as you get all the current flowing through the output stage and really get the tube(s) cooking. While others say that a master volume is the way to go as you can regulate the output without the need of additional devices.

    WHAT DO YOU THINK?
    Which method you prefer and why?

    Cheers,
    Walt


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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