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Help me built an EVH style Wet/Dry/Wet rig (with what I have)

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  • Help me built an EVH style Wet/Dry/Wet rig (with what I have)

    I’ve been listening to a lot of Van Hagar, man Eddie’s tone really got huge. I was thinking, I can probably build a Wet/Dry/Wet rig like he was using with the stuff I have.

    Step 1: Use the appropriate pedals, Phase 90, Flanger, Tape Echo and an OD for boost. (Do I need a chorus in front?)
    Step 2: Splawn Quickrod does a pretty awesome modded Marshall tone
    Step 3: Split the signal in the effects loop, returning the “dry” signal into the Splawn and out to a cabinet
    Step 4: Send the buffered, ISO out to the G-Major 2, set to 100% Mix, used for Stereo Detune, Stereo Delay and Stereo Chorus
    Step 5: send Stereo output of the G-Major 2 to a Mesa 2:90 and to two cabinets

    The only things I don’t own are the buffer box for isolated splitting and some patch cables to get it all wired up.

    Am I missing anything?

    Click image for larger version

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    Oh no.....


    Oh Yeah!

  • #2
    The Center cab is a Mesa Road King, run mono. The stereo cabs are a Victory with Creambacks and a Splawn with their speakers. It might make more sense to use the Splawn as center and the open back side of the Road King as the other stereo cabinet.
    Oh no.....


    Oh Yeah!

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by PFDarkside View Post
      I’ve been listening to a lot of Van Hagar, man Eddie’s tone really got huge. I was thinking, I can probably build a Wet/Dry/Wet rig like he was using with the stuff I have.

      Step 1: Use the appropriate pedals, Phase 90, Flanger, Tape Echo and an OD for boost. (Do I need a chorus in front?)
      Step 2: Splawn Quickrod does a pretty awesome modded Marshall tone
      Step 3: Split the signal in the effects loop, returning the “dry” signal into the Splawn and out to a cabinet
      Step 4: Send the buffered, ISO out to the G-Major 2, set to 100% Mix, used for Stereo Detune, Stereo Delay and Stereo Chorus
      Step 5: send Stereo output of the G-Major 2 to a Mesa 2:90 and to two cabinets

      The only things I don’t own are the buffer box for isolated splitting and some patch cables to get it all wired up.

      Am I missing anything?

      Click image for larger version

Name:	C8FAF11C-4D40-48A3-A8D3-329730DE3008.png
Views:	106
Size:	161.7 KB
ID:	6173642
      Interesting signal chain. The head powers the dry center cab, while the signal from the loop is split off to power the wet sound. I bet that you wouldn't even actually have to stereo treat the wet sound for it to sound good.

      Sent from my SM-A115A using Tapatalk


      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Demanic View Post
        Interesting signal chain. The head powers the dry center cab, while the signal from the loop is split off to power the wet sound. I bet that you wouldn't even actually have to stereo treat the wet sound for it to sound good.

        Sent from my SM-A115A using Tapatalk

        Right now it’s TriAxis into G-Major into 2:90 into Mesa cab and it sounds huge. I’m thinking that adding these other elements will put it over the top. Kind of blending the Splawn/pedals rig with the Mesa/Rack rig.
        Oh no.....


        Oh Yeah!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by PFDarkside View Post

          Right now it’s TriAxis into G-Major into 2:90 into Mesa cab and it sounds huge. I’m thinking that adding these other elements will put it over the top. Kind of blending the Splawn/pedals rig with the Mesa/Rack rig.
          I played around with using two half stacks in stereo about 10 years ago. It sounded good and seemed to beef up the single guitar in my three piece. But I determined that I prefer the guitar to have more focus and punch. Now, for a big rig, I'll use a Randall RG120-ES head into two cabs separated by about 8' horizontally. However the right cab is a ported 2x15 and the left cab is a Randall 4x12 with two Jaguars and two 70/80's in an X pattern. So each side has got a different frequency output curve. So it sounds wider than a single half or full stack, but still punchy.

          Sent from my SM-A115A using Tapatalk

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          • #6
            I'm assuming this is a 'play at home' rig instead of one to gig with; I definitely wouldn't want to have to carry that much hardware up stairs anywhere.

            Regarding the chorus out front, I have one in my pedal drawer because a BOSS CE-2 has been my primary chorus sound since about 2004. I can fall back on the G-Major 2 if I want to do something else.

            Do you have any PA gear? I actually built a rig similar to this in about 2009 to take the whole wet/dry thing for a test drive. The first iteration used a tube power amp and extra guitar cab like you're proposing, but it was actually the second iteration of the rig that blew me away. I wasn't aware of any sort of affordable reactive load at the time, so I mic'd my dry cabinet and used a mixer & processor for the wet sounds. The outs of the mixer were connected to a solid state power amp that drove a couple PA towers I had sitting around.

            The results almost defied words; like the tones on your favorite guitar album, or the sound monitoring in the control room as you track, but all around you. I'm not super familiar with Van Hagar, but the tones I was able to get from that rig reminded me of David Gilmour's live sound. In some ways it almost sounded too good; I prefer the slightly more lo-fi sound of my amp's effects loop. Overall the rig was far too much gear to ever move, but kind of fun as a thought experiment.

            In today's world you could skip the mic and mixer in favor of a reactive load and IR solution.
            Originally posted by crusty philtrum
            And that's probably because most people with electric guitars seem more interested in their own performance rather than the effect on the listener ... in fact i don't think many people who own electric guitars even give a poop about the effect on a listener. Which is why many people play electric guitars but very very few of them are actually musicians.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by dystrust View Post
              I'm assuming this is a 'play at home' rig instead of one to gig with; I definitely wouldn't want to have to carry that much hardware up stairs anywhere.

              Regarding the chorus out front, I have one in my pedal drawer because a BOSS CE-2 has been my primary chorus sound since about 2004. I can fall back on the G-Major 2 if I want to do something else.

              Do you have any PA gear? I actually built a rig similar to this in about 2009 to take the whole wet/dry thing for a test drive. The first iteration used a tube power amp and extra guitar cab like you're proposing, but it was actually the second iteration of the rig that blew me away. I wasn't aware of any sort of affordable reactive load at the time, so I mic'd my dry cabinet and used a mixer & processor for the wet sounds. The outs of the mixer were connected to a solid state power amp that drove a couple PA towers I had sitting around.

              The results almost defied words; like the tones on your favorite guitar album, or the sound monitoring in the control room as you track, but all around you. I'm not super familiar with Van Hagar, but the tones I was able to get from that rig reminded me of David Gilmour's live sound. In some ways it almost sounded too good; I prefer the slightly more lo-fi sound of my amp's effects loop. Overall the rig was far too much gear to ever move, but kind of fun as a thought experiment.

              In today's world you could skip the mic and mixer in favor of a reactive load and IR solution.
              Yes definitely a home-only toy for fun! The Mesa rack/4x12 has never left the house, a head with 2x12 is the biggest I’ll take anywhere.

              I was thinking the pedal chorus (which I love the sound of) is a great tone out front, and definitely different from the wide Tri-chorus type sound in the G-Major. I guess that will be a game time decision.

              I don’t have any PA gear, it sounds like what you are describing is very close to how the original Bradshaw rack guys did it. Also, you know I’m a huge Gilmour fan, so this might be a ridiculous trip down a tonal rabbit hole. Too bad each amp here isn’t about 1/10th the power, the whole neighborhood is going to hear it.

              Also, it was your rack thread that kicked off my thought experiment on this topic. Eventually I can get the GCX and GCP in on the fun too.
              Oh no.....


              Oh Yeah!

              Comment


              • #8
                I gigged out with mine.

                Sent from my SM-A115A using Tapatalk

                Comment


                • #9
                  Do you have a Strymon Mobius?
                  Or something similar?
                  I can send you some settings that will nail that chorusy Van Hagar tone in spades.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Gtrjunior View Post
                    Do you have a Strymon Mobius?
                    Or something similar?
                    I can send you some settings that will nail that chorusy Van Hagar tone in spades.
                    I do have a Mobius. (And a timeline)
                    Oh no.....


                    Oh Yeah!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by PFDarkside View Post
                      I don’t have any PA gear, it sounds like what you are describing is very close to how the original Bradshaw rack guys did it. Also, you know I’m a huge Gilmour fan, so this might be a ridiculous trip down a tonal rabbit hole. Too bad each amp here isn’t about 1/10th the power, the whole neighborhood is going to hear it.
                      My understanding is that the Bradshaw racks were originally built around the Soldano X88 and later CAE 3+ preamps with a line mixer incorporating several single-effect rack units like the TC2290 Delay, Dytronics Tri-Stereo Chorus, and Lexicon PCM70 into a power amp like the Mesa 295 or Strategy 400. I also remember seeing a diagram of EVH's rig in the mid/late 80s that involved a dummy load and post-gain effects with H&H solid state power amps. I'm pretty sure that EVH was using guitar cabinets, but I don't remember for certain. I also don't remember if that EVH rig was wet/dry/wet, nor am I sure where that idea originated.

                      The wet/dry rig I built was inspired by a forum post on either TGP or Huge Racks where someone shared their supposed gigging rig. They had a Blankenship Variplex and Fender 2x12 (don't remember if it was a Twin or Pro), both mic'd into a mixer for the wet sounds. I got as close as I could with the gear I had on hand.

                      Originally posted by PFDarkside View Post
                      Also, it was your rack thread that kicked off my thought experiment on this topic. Eventually I can get the GCX and GCP in on the fun too.
                      Is this the start of a rack 'arms race' on the forum? If that's the case, I'm not expecting to win I'm basically done at this point unless a really great deal pops up on an RJM Effect Gizmo and I decide to pull the trigger.

                      OTOH you know you want a Mastermind GT... I can't be the only one.

                      Originally posted by crusty philtrum
                      And that's probably because most people with electric guitars seem more interested in their own performance rather than the effect on the listener ... in fact i don't think many people who own electric guitars even give a poop about the effect on a listener. Which is why many people play electric guitars but very very few of them are actually musicians.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Questions...

                        Are the effects sent to stereo speakers just wet effects or do they also contain direct signal?

                        Are the effects post Mic, or like in your diagram, direct from the preamp ..which would be harsh? With IRs this kind of setup is almost trivial. if you have to Mic before effects, more difficult.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Top-L View Post
                          Questions...

                          Are the effects sent to stereo speakers just wet effects or do they also contain direct signal?
                          With wet/dry rigs in general, the stereo speakers are wet only. If you want a 'big' rhythm sound through all three cabinets, the secret is to run a short slapback delay through the wet cabs with a single repeat at maybe 30ms. For an even bigger sound, run a slightly different delay time on each side of the stereo field.

                          Originally posted by Top-L View Post
                          Are the effects post Mic, or like in your diagram, direct from the preamp ..which would be harsh?
                          The effects in the OP's diagram aren't direct from the preamp. The OP's signal is split after the preamp with the dry portion going through the Splawn's power section. The wet portion is routed through an effects procesor set 100% wet which is then routed through the Mesa 2:90 and pair of guitar cabs. In terms of overall sound it isn't any more harsh than an effects loop, and it actually sounds quite similar to that in practice. The downside is that the effects are colored by the tube power amp and guitar speakers, so they aren't as clear as the post mic / IR rig.

                          Originally posted by Top-L View Post
                          With IRs this kind of setup is almost trivial. if you have to Mic before effects, more difficult.
                          Using a mic instead of IRs requires a bit more hardware, but it's not super difficult. If I were building that today, I'd use a dummy load with a thru output (like the Two Notes Torpedo Captor) to allow my amp to drive the dry cabinet with effects added post-IR to the wet cab(s). It would look very similar to the OP's diagram, except that the Two Notes would be between the amp and cabinet, I'd replace the 2:90 with a SS power amp, and I'd use PA cabs instead of guitar cabs for the wet portion of the signal.
                          Originally posted by crusty philtrum
                          And that's probably because most people with electric guitars seem more interested in their own performance rather than the effect on the listener ... in fact i don't think many people who own electric guitars even give a poop about the effect on a listener. Which is why many people play electric guitars but very very few of them are actually musicians.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by dystrust View Post

                            My understanding is that the Bradshaw racks were originally built around the Soldano X88 and later CAE 3+ preamps with a line mixer incorporating several single-effect rack units like the TC2290 Delay, Dytronics Tri-Stereo Chorus, and Lexicon PCM70 into a power amp like the Mesa 295 or Strategy 400. I also remember seeing a diagram of EVH's rig in the mid/late 80s that involved a dummy load and post-gain effects with H&H solid state power amps. I'm pretty sure that EVH was using guitar cabinets, but I don't remember for certain. I also don't remember if that EVH rig was wet/dry/wet, nor am I sure where that idea originated.

                            The wet/dry rig I built was inspired by a forum post on either TGP or Huge Racks where someone shared their supposed gigging rig. They had a Blankenship Variplex and Fender 2x12 (don't remember if it was a Twin or Pro), both mic'd into a mixer for the wet sounds. I got as close as I could with the gear I had on hand.



                            Is this the start of a rack 'arms race' on the forum? If that's the case, I'm not expecting to win I'm basically done at this point unless a really great deal pops up on an RJM Effect Gizmo and I decide to pull the trigger.

                            OTOH you know you want a Mastermind GT... I can't be the only one.
                            The rig you are describing is the standard Bradshaw rig that many artists used and was solidified after the early experiments. I think it all started from Landeau needing to get the post recording effects into his live tone, and that started with a mic’ed cab, an outboard rack and PA type amplification. I think Bradshaw or someone in that camp developed the load box that allowed a line level signal to be taken off from the speaker signal, which was fed into the rack gear (and that’s what Ed did). This was for vintage, non loop Marshalls and Fenders. I think he also modded Landeau’s deluxe tickets include an early version of an effects send to avoid the need to mic. The final incarnation was your description with the separate preamp, rack units and lower amps.

                            From an Ed standpoint, my understanding is that the Balance era was the final step in that process, going Wet/Dry/Wet, partially because it keeps that dry center tone for clarity and in case any of the rack stuff went down mid show. For recorded tones he probably just had stereo.

                            Maybe it is an arms race? I was all-in two years ago until you all said “figure out how much that thing is going to weigh”. It came in a 150lbs. so that’s where it stopped. Right now it’s the Furman, TriAxis, Rack Wah, G-Major and 2:90 and is quite heavy. (Also a reason that it’s staying right here at home). Finally, I currently own everything above except the ISO box, which I think should be $50-$100, not so bad. Also hence the lack of matching cabs anywhere.

                            I’d love a Mastermind! But if I’m not gigging it’s just as easy to stomp on things when needed, and if absolutely necessary do a second SKB with the GCX and effect shelves.
                            Oh no.....


                            Oh Yeah!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by dystrust View Post

                              With wet/dry rigs in general, the stereo speakers are wet only. If you want a 'big' rhythm sound through all three cabinets, the secret is to run a short slapback delay through the wet cabs with a single repeat at maybe 30ms. For an even bigger sound, run a slightly different delay time on each side of the stereo field.


                              The effects in the OP's diagram aren't direct from the preamp. The OP's signal is split after the preamp with the dry portion going through the Splawn's power section. The wet portion is routed through an effects procesor set 100% wet which is then routed through the Mesa 2:90 and pair of guitar cabs. In terms of overall sound it isn't any more harsh than an effects loop, and it actually sounds quite similar to that in practice. The downside is that the effects are colored by the tube power amp and guitar speakers, so they aren't as clear as the post mic / IR rig.


                              Using a mic instead of IRs requires a bit more hardware, but it's not super difficult. If I were building that today, I'd use a dummy load with a thru output (like the Two Notes Torpedo Captor) to allow my amp to drive the dry cabinet with effects added post-IR to the wet cab(s). It would look very similar to the OP's diagram, except that the Two Notes would be between the amp and cabinet, I'd replace the 2:90 with a SS power amp, and I'd use PA cabs instead of guitar cabs for the wet portion of the signal.
                              Thanks for making that reply.

                              It seems like I’m on track. I’m good with it being guitar amps/cabs now. Maybe a power level iso box after the Splawn power amp would be better to get the flavor, the 2:90 is very neutral (and powerful).

                              In terms of effects I think what I’ll end up with is:
                              Center: Dry
                              Left: -9cents & ~400ms delay
                              Right: +9cents & ~800ms delay

                              I’m not sure if I’ll have phasing issues due to the digital conversion in the G-Major. With just the delays it would be fine. I guess if I tear everything apart and rebuild like this we’ll find out!
                              Oh no.....


                              Oh Yeah!

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