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  • #31
    Originally posted by Rex_Rocker View Post
    I think solid state technology has been there for quite a while. Many memorable solid state (or mostly solid state) tones have been on records for quite a while. Especially if look into the heavier genres. I think the problem is that solid state amps have been built for a budget ever since they were introduced. And the ones that weren't (like the Roland Jazz Chorus) became iconic.

    I don't think the current wave of solid state pedals offer anything new other than the same old technology applied to newer designs.
    This is exactly it. The bane of solid state has always been a lack of R&D, not the items themselves. During the second half of the eighties and early nineties, when there were anxieties that tubes might disappear entirely, there were made some really fine SS rack units. I haven't really heard significant improvement since, though, and SS is too often relegated to the beginner units.

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    • #32
      Both of my Line 6/Bogner amps provide an "amp" input, which makes them great tube Power Engines. I've used them with my Palladium, Twin Tube Classic, BBE Acoustimax, Yammy MagicStomp, etc., etc. They all sound amazing.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Sirion View Post

        This is exactly it. The bane of solid state has always been a lack of R&D, not the items themselves. During the second half of the eighties and early nineties, when there were anxieties that tubes might disappear entirely, there were made some really fine SS rack units. I haven't really heard significant improvement since, though, and SS is too often relegated to the beginner units.
        And even some of those "beginner units" sound killer through the right cab since the first thing to take a hit on budget amps is the MDF cabinetry and cheapie speakers.

        Examples are the Peavey Bandits and the Vypyrs (solid state gain stages with digital tone stacks). Hell, even the Fender Frontmans sound killer when run through a good cab.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Rex_Rocker View Post
          And even some of those "beginner units" sound killer through the right cab since the first thing to take a hit on budget amps is the MDF cabinetry and cheapie speakers.

          Examples are the Peavey Bandits and the Vypyrs (solid state gain stages with digital tone stacks). Hell, even the Fender Frontmans sound killer when run through a good cab.
          Yup. Jeff Fiorentino, who used to run the website jfrocks.com, got a better brown tone than most people would get out a vintage Marshall stack with all the right tools using a solid-state Crate – I forget which model.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Rex_Rocker View Post
            And even some of those "beginner units" sound killer through the right cab since the first thing to take a hit on budget amps is the MDF cabinetry and cheapie speakers.

            Examples are the Peavey Bandits and the Vypyrs (solid state gain stages with digital tone stacks). Hell, even the Fender Frontmans sound killer when run through a good cab.
            What's a digital tone stack? The Bandits are all analog. The Vyprs are all digital modeling, the preamp and tone stack in those is all digital like any other modeler.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by devastone View Post

              What's a digital tone stack? The Bandits are all analog. The Vyprs are all digital modeling, the preamp and tone stack in those is all digital like any other modeler.
              No. The Vypyrs are not all digital like any other modeler. The distortion comes from their Transtube thing, and then it goes through a digital EQ controls. The effects and stomps and whatnot are all digital too. Not sure if the input filtering is also digital, because some models are tighter than others, even if all of them sound pretty similar.

              At least on the first gens, that's how they worked.

              Yeah, the Bandits are all analog.

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              • #37
                From the Vypyr manual:

                After 43 years of experience building tube amplifiers and working with analog distortion, Peavey has finally combined true analog distortion with advanced digital effects algorithms to create the best sounding modeling amp on the planet, period. The VYPYR is significantly different from other modeling amplifiers for several reasons, but the primary reason and key to tone is ANALOG distortion. Years spent perfecting our patented TransTubeŽ technology have paid off in allowing us to combine REAL ANALOG distortion with one of the most advanced processors in ANY modeling amplifier, the 266 MHz Dual Core SHARC. This amazing combination of technology allows the VYPYR to operate up to five effects simultaneously while maintaining the real sound of an ANALOG amplifier. What this means to you is unlike our competition, your amp will not only sound great at home, but incredible on stage and in the studio as well.

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                • #38
                  Interesting.

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                  • #39
                    ​​
                    Originally posted by Chistopher View Post
                    It's 2024 and people are still using preamps? Boss IR-200 and an H90 is really all you need to get any amp, cab, and effect these days.
                    I wish that were true.... I´ve tried all the modelers on the market, for years. And while we crossed the "you can´t hear or feel a difference" threshold a few years back with the current Helix+ Axe-FX generation, and I can get good tones out of them, i can´t get my tone out of them.

                    I have IRs of my cabs with numerous mics in multiple positions for silent recording, my power amp is very transparent, and most modulation and delay FX are more or less interchangeable anyway... That said, the "symphonic" effect of an old EMP-100 or SPX-90 is also something I rarely if ever hear duplicated on moderlers, and it´s still a key ingredient in my clean tone.


                    But even without that detail, until somebody starts modeling Mesa V-Twin and Peavey Rockmaster Preamps (or something reasonably close), every modeler on the market can go fornicate itself with an iron stick and I´ll continue to carry around those exact pieces of gear (or buy a kemper and "clone" them if I ever have serious concerns about longevity or theft) ​​
                    Zerberus Industries: Where perfection just isn't good enough.

                    Listen to my music at http://www.soundclick.com/infiniteending and www.subache.com

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Zerberus View Post
                      But even without that detail, until somebody starts modeling Mesa V-Twin and Peavey Rockmaster Preamps (or something reasonably close), every modeler on the market can go fornicate itself with an iron stick and I´ll continue to carry around those exact pieces of gear (or buy a kemper and "clone" them if I ever have serious concerns about longevity or theft)
                      I've said that I will buy and play the first modeller that has the following models in it:

                      Marshall Super Lead
                      Soldano SLO-100
                      Rockman
                      ADA MP-1

                      It needs to be able not only to get close to these sounds, but to acknowledge the models – the question is partially political (in a very extended sense) for me.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Sirion View Post

                        I've said that I will buy and play the first modeller that has the following models in it:

                        Marshall Super Lead
                        Soldano SLO-100
                        Rockman
                        ADA MP-1

                        It needs to be able not only to get close to these sounds, but to acknowledge the models – the question is partially political (in a very extended sense) for me.
                        those are all probably in the quad cortex as user profiles (or whatever they call them). I messed with some ADA mp-1 user profiles (a hot rodded marshall type setting) on one and it was amazing. Sounded better than the unit's own jcm800 model to me.

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                        • #42
                          I finally verified if my Alto 8” powered speaker works in a band situation, and the answer is no. Other guitarist had a 20 watt tube head into a nice 12” cab. I had my modeler into the 2,000 watt Alto on a stand. While it sounded good by itself and was pretty loud, it just didn’t mesh well with a real guitar cab and got buried. What I thought would be the ideal little digital rig turned out to not be (although for practice at home, sure).

                          While I may still use the modeler in some fashion live, it’s going to have to go through a good power amp then a real guitar cab. My Legacy cab needs to get off the sidelines anyway.
                          Last edited by DankStar; 03-03-2024, 03:23 PM.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by DankStar View Post

                            those are all probably in the quad cortex as user profiles (or whatever they call them). I messed with some ADA mp-1 user profiles (a hot rodded marshall type setting) on one and it was amazing. Sounded better than the unit's own jcm800 model to me.
                            Oh yes, you can get approximations of them on a ton of systems, and people have repeatedly tried selling me the Kemper on it. My beef is that I want the creators to acknowledge the role these models have played in guitar history by actually adding them to the units themselves, rather than leaving it to users to approximate them through other models. That is what I meant by it being a political matter.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Sirion View Post

                              Oh yes, you can get approximations of them on a ton of systems, and people have repeatedly tried selling me the Kemper on it. My beef is that I want the creators to acknowledge the role these models have played in guitar history by actually adding them to the units themselves, rather than leaving it to users to approximate them through other models. That is what I meant by it being a political matter.
                              ah, I see. Makes sense

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Sirion View Post

                                I've said that I will buy and play the first modeller that has the following models in it:

                                Marshall Super Lead
                                Soldano SLO-100
                                Rockman
                                ADA MP-1

                                It needs to be able not only to get close to these sounds, but to acknowledge the models – the question is partially political (in a very extended sense) for me.
                                I feel you. Some of my favourite secret-sauce amps are so obscure there’s no way it would ever occur to a company to include an accurate model of it it any of their products.
                                The opinions expressed above do not necessarily represent those of the poster and are to be considered suspect at best.

                                Lead guitarist and vocalist of...



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