Phasing Problems: a 115 and 410 cancel out each other?

[James Rock]

Re: Phasing Problems: a 115 and 410 cancel out each other?

I'd like to add there are much more significant phase problems from the stage sound and the PA sound as the PA speakers are never level with instrument and and reflections of back walls etc but you don't notice it alot (unless it is really bad) because other things outway these phase issues and you can't hear slight comb filtering that easy unless you start walking around (TBH most PA's in small venues are slightly out of phase due to the construction of buildings and where the speakers are places). I much bigger problem occurs when things are WIRED out of phase so that when one speaker pushes the other pulls, the more physically inphase the more out of phase speakers in these situations would be. Plus comb filtering sometimes makes things sound better.

[crusty philtrum]

Re: Phasing Problems: a 115 and 410 cancel out each other?

I don't understand the premise. You simply use an old 9 Volt battery to check the phase of each speaker in a multi-speaker cabinet, and make sure multiple cabs are all in phase with one another. Beyond that there's really nothing you can do. If a combination of cabs then sounds like it has some kind of phasing issue, check each cab's sound individually, and if it seems to be the combination of cabs, the choice is yours about whether to use them in combination or not.

btw, speakers are more efficient when stacked vertically as opposed to being arrayed horizontally.

[everdrone]

Re: Phasing Problems: a 115 and 410 cancel out each other?

I go to some clubs with very pro sound/tweaking and the bassguitar is drowned out! The premise is that there is a way around this, acoustics are one thing, and mixing speakers/cabs is another.

in real world design terms, a certain speaker acts in a certain way and has certain physical properties. The assumption that 15s are louder in the lows is basically wrong, pretty much always going to be quieter than an equivalent 4x10 because they have about half the cone area. Plus they handle less power, so the 15 on top is so you can hear the 15 fart out and turn down, otherwise the 4x10 will drown it out. The premise is that some engineering designs are flawed, like mixing small speakers with big speakers, and other variables too.

I just do not think that mixing cabs/speakers is such a great idea when trying to maintain a bassguitar sound that is audible, here is some food for thought:

http://barefacedbass.com/technical-information.htm

funny bass cab: http://tecamp.de/en/products/cabinet....html#overview

Equipped with 2 x 15”, 2 x 12”, 4 x 10” and two NTW1 high frequency drivers the Bad Cab is designed to accurately reproduce the entire tonal spectrum with unparalleled superiority. Even at lower volumes this cabinet lets you feel what you play due to its moving tremendous amounts of air .The BadCab offers a “sensual” experience all its own.

[BlueTalon]

Re: Phasing Problems: a 115 and 410 cancel out each other?

in real world design terms, a certain speaker acts in a certain way and has certain physical properties.

Well, that certainly narrows it down!

The assumption that 15s are louder in the lows is basically wrong, pretty much always going to be quieter than an equivalent 4x10 because they have about half the cone area. Plus they handle less power, so the 15 on top is so you can hear the 15 fart out and turn down, otherwise the 4x10 will drown it out.

That depends entirely on the rigs involved. Assumptions? Two 15s have more surface area than four 10s. Doh! There goes your argument! Or are we supposed to assume you are talking about a single 15 matched with four 10s? And are we supposed to assume the cabinets were designed to be used together? Or are we assuming just any ol' 15 compared to any ol' 410?

The premise is that some engineering designs are flawed, like mixing small speakers with big speakers, and other variables too.

Of course, if your premise is based on assumptions, then your premise is only as good as the assumptions it's based on. For someone who's not a physics major, you seem pretty certain you know which designs are flawed. Do you know what the engineering principles were behind the designs you think are flawed? Or are you just googling to find someone who agrees with you and uses big words?

You pick your scientist, you pick your science.

I just do not think that mixing cabs/speakers is such a great idea when trying to maintain a bassguitar sound that is audible

An engineering friend of mine had a saying, "You can't argue with results." Out here in the real world, people use mixed rigs all the time and have perfectly audible bass guitar sounds.


You tap-danced past my previous question. Do you play an instrument with more than one coil per string? If so, you are starting your entire signal chain with a phase artifact. Does that bother you? If not, why not? And why obsess over differences in speakers if you aren't concerned about phase issues in your signal source?

You seem to be on a crusade to convince people that mixed speakers are a bad idea. Can't you just accept the fact that a significant number of people are going to disagree with you?

[everdrone]

Re: Phasing Problems: a 115 and 410 cancel out each other?

lol I know people disagree with me

I just made a thread, I am not obsessed about possible phasing issues though ...I was obsessed about it prior to getting my rigs though.

On the other hand, I am obsessed about tone and not having the bass guitar being drowned out of the mix anything I can learn about that is good stuff

[BlueTalon]

Re: Phasing Problems: a 115 and 410 cancel out each other?

Hey, check this out!



(Just trying to make your head explode.)

[everdrone]

Re: Phasing Problems: a 115 and 410 cancel out each other?

ya, there are some weird ones out there! I use recabinet impulses IRs and they have two separate cabs and mics for the bassguitar, and I think the mix gets muddy with certain combinations.