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Ibanez wood fraud

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  • AlexR
    replied
    Re: Ibanez wood fraud

    ^ Circles ....again.
    Mahogany is a common name, not botanical latin. It never does describe the specific wood species.


    I get it.....you have an agenda here that you are so emotionally wedded too, and you desperately need to fulfil. So you're going to keep trying to find the right angle to fulfil your agenda no matter what.
    On the upside, there is a whole new career path opening up in writing for trashmags just waiting for you. They too just love writers who are willing to discard reality and commonsense in order to promote a scandal.

    Leave a comment:


  • solspirit
    replied
    Re: Ibanez wood fraud

    Ok

    So Ibanez knew that it was not sweetaenea, true mahogany.
    Last edited by solspirit; 07-04-2020, 10:56 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • ItsaBass
    replied
    Re: Ibanez wood fraud

    Originally posted by solspirit View Post
    Hundreds?

    Only 2 as far as I know, Sapele & Khaya,...
    mahogany is a very regulated wood whoever buys it, knows what they're buying.
    Yes, hundreds!

    Many types of trees are generically referred to as "mahogany" in the lumber trade. Forests are often clear cut, and much of the unspecified lumber cut down along with everything else is simply called "mahogany." Additionally, many types of low-grade cheap farmed tropical trees are simply called "mahogany" in the industry. It's kind of a catchall term for a ton of things that could be lumped together with a description as broad as "unspecified low-grade tropically grown wood that isn't super hard."

    If something just says "mahogany," it could be practically anything, even things with properties you wouldn't generally associate with mahogany as it has traditionally been used for instruments and furniture. If it says "true mahogany," that's more specific, but still covers a fairly wide range of woods. If it says "genuine mahogany," it can be one of only three species (including Honduran). If it says "Honduran mahogany," it can only be one species.

    The guitar (and furniture, and everything else) manufacturers know this when they are buying. They aren't getting fooled. They just know it's a generic term.

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  • solspirit
    replied
    Re: Ibanez wood fraud (or not)?

    There's also the fact that absolutely nothing behaves like mahogany when you're working with it, so they would know immediately. regardless of what they bought it as,. Even if it was bought as mahogany, they would be misleading and lying selling it as mahogany.

    Leave a comment:


  • solspirit
    replied
    Re: Ibanez wood fraud

    Originally posted by ItsaBass View Post
    For the umpteenth time, we don’t know anything that leads us to believe that this is not a wood commonly referred to as “Mahogany” in the lumber industry. Again, hundreds of different types of lumber are called that.
    Hundreds?

    Only 2 as far as I know, Sapele & Khaya,...
    mahogany is a very regulated wood whoever buys it, knows what they're buying.
    Last edited by solspirit; 06-30-2020, 07:13 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • beaubrummels
    replied
    Re: Ibanez wood fraud (or not)?

    This thread’s gonna be like the rockman thread. Except, in before the lock.

    Leave a comment:


  • ItsaBass
    replied
    Re: Ibanez wood fraud

    Originally posted by solspirit View Post
    Meh... IAB... You're bending over... I want truth in advertising you told me you're giving me mahogany I want ****ing mahogany I don't care what it is you're selling just make sure you label it correctly.
    For the umpteenth time, we don’t know anything that leads us to believe that this is not a wood commonly referred to as “Mahogany” in the lumber industry. Again, hundreds of different types of lumber are called that.

    Leave a comment:


  • solspirit
    replied
    Re: Ibanez wood fraud

    Meh... IAB... You're bending over... I want truth in advertising you told me you're giving me mahogany I want ****ing mahogany I don't care what it is you're selling just make sure you label it correctly.

    Leave a comment:


  • ItsaBass
    replied
    Re: Ibanez wood fraud

    Originally posted by TMD View Post
    I don’t see why we can’t continue to talk about what we think is ethical behavior for a guitar company and what are reasonable expectations for a consumer. Of course, we also welcome any insights into how the guitar industry and wood trade actually work.
    Talk about whatever, all you want. I didn't say not to. I said the conversation isn't going to go anywhere except in circles.

    People keep saying that Ibanez stated one wood, and used another. We don't know that to be true. We will never know, because the OP won't carve up his bass and pay for lab tests.

    There isn't much discussion or argument to be had over whether a company should give you what it says it's giving you. You will be hard pressed to find someone who doesn't believe that. The question is whether that's what happened here. So far, I've seen nothing definitive showing that it is. A blurry picture of wood that could probably reasonably be called mahogany, following wood industry naming conventions, is not something to make definitive statements over, as several people are doing here.

    Again, when guitar makers say "mahogany," they are being vague on purpose. It gives them wiggle room to source a variety of species of lumber for the same products. It helps them keep costs down. I don't see a problem with that, as long as what they're giving you is something that is routinely called "mahogany" in the lumber trade...which is a LOT of stuff.

    Should
    they be more specific? Well, of course, as hobbyists, we would like them to be. But I don't know about "should." I myself am perfectly content to let a low end line of instruments be made out of some general category of wood, if it helps keeps the prices low by allowing them to be less specific in the lumber that they purchase. Should they lie? No. But I don't think they did that here, and even if they did, we can't prove it based on what we know.
    Last edited by ItsaBass; 06-29-2020, 05:20 PM.

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  • ehdwuld
    replied
    Re: Ibanez wood fraud

    I could never make it past the hollow bodies either

    Leave a comment:


  • Aceman
    replied
    Re: Ibanez wood fraud (or not)?

    Originally posted by JOLLY View Post
    Actually, this is the bottom line......literally, the bottom line of Page 1 in the 2017 catalog. "All specifications are subject to change without notice.".

    http://resources.ibanez.com/resource...ez_Catalog.pdf
    Good god Ibanez makes a lot of guitars! I gave up scrolling at Hollow bodies....

    Leave a comment:


  • solspirit
    replied
    Re: Ibanez wood fraud

    Originally posted by TMD View Post
    I don’t see why we can’t continue to talk about what we think is ethical behavior for a guitar company and what are reasonable expectations for a consumer. Of course, we also welcome any insights into how the guitar industry and wood trade actually work.
    This

    Leave a comment:


  • TMD
    replied
    Re: Ibanez wood fraud

    Originally posted by ItsaBass View Post
    There is nowhere for this conversation to go until it is proven that the wood in question is not actually something that is routinely called "mahogany" in the wood trade.
    I don’t see why we can’t continue to talk about what we think is ethical behavior for a guitar company and what are reasonable expectations for a consumer. Of course, we also welcome any insights into how the guitar industry and wood trade actually work.

    Leave a comment:


  • ItsaBass
    replied
    Re: Ibanez wood fraud

    There is nowhere for this conversation to go until it is proven that the wood in question is not actually something that is routinely called "mahogany" in the wood trade.

    Again, hundreds of different types of trees, spanning a variety of characteristics, are routinely sold as "mahogany" – wood-industry-wide, not just in relation to guitars.

    Leave a comment:


  • TMD
    replied
    Re: Ibanez wood fraud

    “We want to sell you on these specs and let you make buying decisions based on them, but we don’t want to be held responsible for any of it.”

    Leave a comment:

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