Passive bass pickups with active EQ--underrated setup?

[Inflames626]

Just browsing Reverb listings fueling the GAS window shopping habit.

Saw a few basses with passive pickups but active tone controls.

Basses seem to fall into active pickups/active preamp varieties or fully passive varieties for more traditionalists.

I see passive pickup/active preamp combos on occasion, as well as those with passive/active switches (90s Carvin LB76s come to mind, 80s-90s Peavey Dynabasses).

I was wondering what everyone's opinion is on these less common setups since I'm not a proper bass player.

As a guitarist, I prefer to tweak my bass on an amp head or in software, as I find it more exact than adjusting on the instrument. So active preamps really aren't that important to me.

I prefer the warmer sound of a passive bass over an active bass, especially a PJ. Everything active and hi fi sounds too much like a bass synth sample. Easier to mix but I find the tone less pleasing than a passive bass. Just having something in the bridge to give the P a bit more clarity and attack helps a lot.

Much thanks.

[Inflames626]

I seem to remember David Ellefson, whose tone I really respect as what Jason Newsted's tone should have been, saying in the 90s he tended to favor passive for recording and active for live since it cuts through better.

Maybe I will come to this consensus as well.

[Seashore]

Both my Ibanez SRs are like this. The pickups are passive but they were designed to be used in conjunction with active tone controls. I'm much happier having taken the preamps out of both of them, I get more control and a better sound with an EQ pedal. Those Ibanez pres just weren't voiced the right way for what I needed. I could understand why someone would rather have the controls onboard, but for me, the less knobs on the instrument, the better. I have heard good things about the transparency and utility of Audere preamps... haven't had occasion to try them, but maybe worth a look.

[Inflames626]

Seashore , I'm inclined to agree with you that more simplicity on an instrument is better, at least on a bass.

[Rex_Rocker]

I have an old 2000's LTD F-205 which came with the passive EMG HZ pickups, but an active EMG with BMT controls. I think it's called the BQS.

TBH, I never used it. I didn't see why I should. I could very well just tweak my tone settings somewhere else in the signal chain. I used to use an MXR M80 OD/Preamp where I could tweak the EQ. Then my Ampeg had pretty comprehensive tone controls as well. I understand I'd be able to tweak my EQ pre-distortion with the EMG preamp, but I didn't feel the need to. As long as I kept my strings fresh, the passive EMG pickups sounded alright distorted, so I just downright disconnected it. When I tried wiring it in again, I realized I screwed something, and the treble or the bass knob, don't remember, wasn't working, so I just left it out ever since.

My point is having onboard BMT controls in active bass preamps is just all around redundant *for me* (if the bass already has pickups that you like). The only case where I could see it having an application is if live, you're going direct to FOH. But at that point, I bet the puny onboard BMT controls in your bass are going to make any difference in sounding less ****ty, LOL.

[Inflames626]

Rex_Rocker , I'm largely of the same opinion. I think it's a culture difference between guitarists using amp heads to sculpt their sound and bassists using onboard controls.

These preamps and controls drive up the price of basses for me. And extreme boosts sound more unnatural than small cuts. So I see little use in such controls.

If your EMG HZs are 4 conductor, try various wiring options with them. My guitar EMG HZ1s sound great with Triple Shots. Similar to Duncan Customs.

[Rex_Rocker]

I'm largely of the same opinion. I think it's a culture difference between guitarists using amp heads to sculpt their sound and bassists using onboard controls.

These preamps and controls drive up the price of basses for me. And extreme boosts sound more unnatural than small cuts. So I see little use in such controls.

If your EMG HZs are 4 conductor, try various wiring options with them. My guitar EMG HZ1s sound great with Triple Shots. Similar to Duncan Customs.

I was mainly a bassist at some point. However, I did always have a very guitar-like approach to bass. My favorite bass tone is Rex's from Pantera (as if you couldn't tell from my username, LOL), but I also really like Lemmy's. It's all about hitting the strings hard with a pick, and then running some overdrive where I can blend the clean signal in. Compressor is a must for me too. Kinda like running a Tube Screamer with high gain amps on guitar.

I always wanted to try the EMG HZ's split because I just all around prefer Jazz basses over anything else tone-wise. But I never got to try it, and now, I left my bass at my hometown, so I don't even have it around anymore.

I don't really dislike the EMG HZ's on bass. They were kinda neutral tonally to the point of being slightly mehh, but that also meant they took overdrive well. I just prefer the CLANK of a Jazz bass, personally.

The thing about running the EQ on bass is that for me, it's either up all the way, neutral to the 0 position, or down all the way. If you ran the knobs somewhere other than those positions, good luck finding the same tone again if your knob positions change. At least my bass didn't have any pointers or the knobs didn't have any numbers or something that told you where they were pointing.

[Inflames626]

Rex_Rocker , I feel the same way about finding in between positions tonally on bass or even guitar. I only use a tone knob when I want to go full dark on a neck pickup, usually.

I'm more of a Steve Harris guy. "Clank bass" or any distortion for me depends upon whether it suits the song.

I prefer a metal pick for metal bass lines but I tend to go great pick players >= great finger players > mediocre pick players.

I like EMG HZs generally. They're a bit anemic on the output but they sit in a mix well and they're a good platform to work from if you like most of your boost from the preamp.

HZs aren't better or worse than active EMGs IMO--they are a tradeoff. Actives cut through a little more but HZs give you more diverse wiring options.

[Rex_Rocker]

I feel the same way about finding in between positions tonally on bass or even guitar. I only use a tone knob when I want to go full dark on a neck pickup, usually.

I'm more of a Steve Harris guy. "Clank bass" or any distortion for me depends upon whether it suits the song.

I prefer a metal pick for metal bass lines but I tend to go great pick players >= great finger players > mediocre pick players.

I like EMG HZs generally. They're a bit anemic on the output but they sit in a mix well and they're a good platform to work from if you like most of your boost from the preamp.

HZs aren't better or worse than active EMGs IMO--they are a tradeoff. Actives cut through a little more but HZs give you more diverse wiring options.

Steve Harris' tone does have some grit to it, tho, as far as OD. Not my thing, personally. A P Bass, flatwounds, and fingerstyle are kinda the antithesis of the bass tone that *I* like, but it's undeniable how important his tone is to giving Iron Maiden their sound. It is a good sound, just not the sound that I go for.

I also like the In Flames bass tone on Come Clarity. I think they used the same pedal Rex Brown used for that sound, and that's why I got it, LOL.

Yeah, EMG HZ's are solid overall. I think what people don't like about them is the fact that many (not all) are *meant* to sound like the actives, just in passive format. The H4's and H3's I think are maketed like that. And they really don't like at all. At least to me. I like the H4A on its own as a cool mid output offering, I just don't think it sounds like the 85 at all.

[Inflames626]

Rex_Rocker , I like how you said Steve's tone is the antithesis of a traditional metal bass tone. He has all the ingredients of an old school Motown bassist (a warm bass tone I like to offset a modern, hi gain active pickup metal sound), and yet Steve has such cut, mainly because he's really loud in the mix and, in the old days with Martin Birch especially, the guitars were thin and nasally to make room for King Steve.

New Maiden (Brave New World and after, Kevin Shirley records), I definitely agree Steve has more clank and is better balanced in the mix vs. say, Piece of Mind. Brave New World was so hotly anticipated. I remember listening to Wicker Man and it sounded like Steve had suddenly become a pick player.

So I like Steve's old school tone, just not so up front in the mix.

I've noticed as I've grown older that bass tone that sounds good by itself sounds bad in a mix and vice versa. In trying to put my ideal bass tone in my songs, I often have to sacrifice a lot. Then guitars, snare, bass, kicks, everything get boosted to about 2 khz where we hear really well and then I have to start over again.

I think distortion in a mix is fine to help cut through. I especially love Sansamp plugins and pedals for this. And since it also works with guitar it is so versatile. But a lot has come out since then.

If you ask me what kind of bass sound I like to hear isolated, it's pretty much an old school Motown James Jamerson type thing through a clean Fender bass amp. Sometimes P's have too much mid honk, I agree, or even sound semi hollow. Sometimes I like a two P (hard to find) or PJ to balance this out.

And yet what's ironic is I think the rock and metal geared pickups made by SD (mainly the basslines SPB3) are best suited for a fat, dark, clean bass sound like Motown or hip hop.

I've found in metal I like the bass pickups to be less wound so the low end is tighter. HZs are great here. A little weak yes but dialed in to an amp right and they don't get in your way, unlike SPB3s which I found to be like the bass version of Invaders.

90s In Flames was my favorite band for a long time. I had the pleasure of meeting Jesper Stromblad in 2000 just before they hit it big. Peter Iwers had always been cool to me on social media (I recalled a time way back when he played ESP 6 strings and we chatted about that). Niclas Engelin and Niklas Sundin from Dark Tranquillity have been super cool to me too.

I love the Gothenburg scene generally and have a few friends from there from my music school days.

That said I always found IF's bass tone to be a little Jason Newsted-ish. It glued everything together but wasn't just in your face.

An alternative I like from that scene is Dark Tranquillity's Projector album. I think Martin Henriksson told me he used an Ibanez J bass copy and a Peavey Mark VIII bass amp.

The bass tone on that record is almost in Tool territory. Sets up such a dark ambience. I'll link you to one of my favorite cuts. I would say this is closer to a Steve Harris tone, also. A lot of low end, but it cuts through.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDA4nTstqSw

Out of the EMGs I've heard, I like the tone of their sets that mimic PJs. They seem to have more mids and cut through. But their dual coil sets seem to be scooped and glue the mix together while kind of disappearing on their own.

I may try an active bass at some point, but right now I'm more about juicing an HZ to be what I want than to try to dial warmth into an active. 24 volts may make a difference. We'll see.

The relative weakness of EMG's passive line is due to decades of their own marketing saying active is better. Even active EMGs are not super hot. The magnet pull is weak. My Duncan Distortion squeals and screams more than my EMG 81 ever will.

But the 81 just sits right in the mix around 2khz and so has that sound.

Rodney McG has a great bass channel for guitarists coming into the bass world. It's here: https://www.youtube.com/@RodneyMcG

As far as Rex, I've identified his sound with Spector (which I think is similar to Warwick) for years. I think his more recent run with Thunderbird style basses matches his attitude and tone better. But I associate any Gibson bass with a very warm sound (they were called Mudbuckers for a reason).

Of course, if you want to go back to his glam days, he was playing Carvin. I always loved their stuff too. Pre-Kiesel Carvin was the Peavey of U.S. made custom shops--good gear at a fair, although not always cheap, price.

[Inflames626]

DD Verni's great as well for his tone in Overkill. To me it just sounds too much like a guitar competing with other guitars.

It might be fairer to say I like to sound like Steve until the bass fills part of the song. Then sounding like DD helps for clarity.

[Chistopher]

It's not as uncommon as you'd think. Stingrays are like this, and I've seen quite a few P/J basses with passive pickups and a 3 band

[Inflames626]

It's not as uncommon as you'd think. Stingrays are like this, and I've seen quite a few P/J basses with passive pickups and a 3 band

Christoper , good point. I didn't think about the Stingray mainly because people own relatively few of them due to expense.

I was thinking of active EQ/passive pickups as like having piezo pickups in the bridge or a Lightwave system--something that could be done, but is just chosen not to do usually.

I think with most modern basses this comes down to "active pickups=better." So usually wherever this is an active pickup there is an active EQ to go along with it.

[Rex_Rocker]

Rex_Rocker , I like how you said Steve's tone is the antithesis of a traditional metal bass tone. He has all the ingredients of an old school Motown bassist (a warm bass tone I like to offset a modern, hi gain active pickup metal sound), and yet Steve has such cut, mainly because he's really loud in the mix and, in the old days with Martin Birch especially, the guitars were thin and nasally to make room for King Steve.

New Maiden (Brave New World and after, Kevin Shirley records), I definitely agree Steve has more clank and is better balanced in the mix vs. say, Piece of Mind. Brave New World was so hotly anticipated. I remember listening to Wicker Man and it sounded like Steve had suddenly become a pick player.

So I like Steve's old school tone, just not so up front in the mix.

I've noticed as I've grown older that bass tone that sounds good by itself sounds bad in a mix and vice versa. In trying to put my ideal bass tone in my songs, I often have to sacrifice a lot. Then guitars, snare, bass, kicks, everything get boosted to about 2 khz where we hear really well and then I have to start over again.

I think distortion in a mix is fine to help cut through. I especially love Sansamp plugins and pedals for this. And since it also works with guitar it is so versatile. But a lot has come out since then.

If you ask me what kind of bass sound I like to hear isolated, it's pretty much an old school Motown James Jamerson type thing through a clean Fender bass amp. Sometimes P's have too much mid honk, I agree, or even sound semi hollow. Sometimes I like a two P (hard to find) or PJ to balance this out.

And yet what's ironic is I think the rock and metal geared pickups made by SD (mainly the basslines SPB3) are best suited for a fat, dark, clean bass sound like Motown or hip hop.

I've found in metal I like the bass pickups to be less wound so the low end is tighter. HZs are great here. A little weak yes but dialed in to an amp right and they don't get in your way, unlike SPB3s which I found to be like the bass version of Invaders.

90s In Flames was my favorite band for a long time. I had the pleasure of meeting Jesper Stromblad in 2000 just before they hit it big. Peter Iwers had always been cool to me on social media (I recalled a time way back when he played ESP 6 strings and we chatted about that). Niclas Engelin and Niklas Sundin from Dark Tranquillity have been super cool to me too.

I love the Gothenburg scene generally and have a few friends from there from my music school days.

That said I always found IF's bass tone to be a little Jason Newsted-ish. It glued everything together but wasn't just in your face.

An alternative I like from that scene is Dark Tranquillity's Projector album. I think Martin Henriksson told me he used an Ibanez J bass copy and a Peavey Mark VIII bass amp.

The bass tone on that record is almost in Tool territory. Sets up such a dark ambience. I'll link you to one of my favorite cuts. I would say this is closer to a Steve Harris tone, also. A lot of low end, but it cuts through.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDA4nTstqSw

Out of the EMGs I've heard, I like the tone of their sets that mimic PJs. They seem to have more mids and cut through. But their dual coil sets seem to be scooped and glue the mix together while kind of disappearing on their own.

I may try an active bass at some point, but right now I'm more about juicing an HZ to be what I want than to try to dial warmth into an active. 24 volts may make a difference. We'll see.

The relative weakness of EMG's passive line is due to decades of their own marketing saying active is better. Even active EMGs are not super hot. The magnet pull is weak. My Duncan Distortion squeals and screams more than my EMG 81 ever will.

But the 81 just sits right in the mix around 2khz and so has that sound.

Rodney McG has a great bass channel for guitarists coming into the bass world. It's here: https://www.youtube.com/@RodneyMcG

As far as Rex, I've identified his sound with Spector (which I think is similar to Warwick) for years. I think his more recent run with Thunderbird style basses matches his attitude and tone better. But I associate any Gibson bass with a very warm sound (they were called Mudbuckers for a reason).

Of course, if you want to go back to his glam days, he was playing Carvin. I always loved their stuff too. Pre-Kiesel Carvin was the Peavey of U.S. made custom shops--good gear at a fair, although not always cheap, price.

Each to his own. I don't play anything like Iron Maiden, Pantera, or Overkill, personally. I just take these tones as a reference.

Dark is the last thing I want anything to sound, personally. However, in my mixes I do like the clank from the bass to poke from bellow the guitars sizzle. 2K sounds about right for bass, but I do scoop my bass guitar enormously, personally. It's so easy to get a bass tone that muddies up the mix rather than filling it. Bass guitar does take A LOT more processing for me to get right than guitars.

Although for guitar, I do like a healthy dose of 2K, but when you're using a V30 and a SM57, much like I am nowadays, you're inherently going to get that, so I don't worry too much about boosting or adding it somewhere else in the chain. However, while I don't like my guitars harsh, I do like an extended top end. I've personally stopped lopassing guitars altogether. It's not like there is much info up there, but the little info that is there makes them sound just a tiny bit more 3D IMO. And since there is so little anyways, I don't think it messes all that much with cymbals. Then again, I am a huge fan of 90's and 2000's Sneap's, Richardson's, and Nordstrom's work, so they've all got the same kinda sizzly frying-bacon high-end in common.

[Inflames626]

Rex_Rocker , as usual you are certainly not wrong and very much right. There is only personal preference.