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Passive bass pickups with active EQ--underrated setup?

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  • #46
    Some of my friends dig Fleshgod Apocalypse too.

    To be honest, despite their appeal to hot topic scene kids, I like some of the newer Cradle of Filth records that have a bit of an Iron Maiden flavor to them. Very clicky drums. But I like the melodies. Danny Filth's voice is...interesting and unique. Not always pleasant. But I appreciate the work he puts into his vocal layering to make it almost like a sound designed vocal. Of course, a bit part of his influence is 1980s British horror like "Hellraiser," when they'd do a lot of sound effects like that for monsters and whatnot.

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    • #47
      I like a pretty raw drum sound at times, and tom work especially from black metal.

      Deathspell Omega comes to mind, as does Wolves in the Throne Room. I also really liked classic era Bathory like "Blood, Fire, Death."

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      • #48
        Yeah, we're worlds apart when it comes to taste in mixes, then, LOL.

        I'm not usually a big fan of the tones on old Metal records. Or old records in general. For me, technology has advanced, and nowadays, we have "better" (and more attainable) tools to make "better" mixes. Of course, "better" is subjective, as music is art, and sometimes, "perfect" is not what you want. I think it was that Kohle dude you mentioned in another thread who said that.

        I most certainly don't like raw drums. At least not in Metal. I hate hearing reverb on the kick on MOP or those cardboardy toms on AJFA. Killer records at the time, no doubt, I just don't think the production has held up as well as the Black Album has. Even then, I'm not a big fan of some of the aesthetic choices taken on that mix. Phase-y guitars that are kinda low in the mix, super loud drums and vocals that stick on top of everything else, and other stuff. Still, that is an iconic production that's sadly's Metallica's first arguably non-Metal record, LOL.

        I HATE HATE HATE HATE the tone on Mastodon's Leviathan (which was IMO Mastodon's last heavy album). Good music, but the mixes come off as so Hipster-y pedantic just trying to be different for the sake of being different. Ugly-sounding guitars and cardboard-y sounding drums. I'm sure that record was not low-budget, but it sounds like someone recorded it in his garage to me.

        I do like Terry Date, Colin Richardson, and Nordtrom for what they were doing in the 90's, though. Carcass Heartwork is another record I reference all the time. Those guitars are (to me) what Metal guitars should sound like. Or at least, downtuned Metal guitars.

        JMO, of course. Like we discussed, I'm not really into Thrash, personally. Not that I don't like, just that I didn't really get into it when I was younger, and nowadays, it's kinda like a genre that stopped evolving. I guess you could say the same about Swedish Melodeath, but at least, that has got the nostalgia factor for me.

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        • #49
          To me thrash and death metal are joined at the hip. The latter is just a more extreme form of the former. The issue is a lot of death metal started taking on a lot of groove metal elements, mainly from Sepultura and Pantera, and that led to some lazy guitar playing relative to thrash.

          I liked Heartwork. Didn't care much for the fuzzy guitars but Carcass (having a lot of overlay with Napalm Death) was grindcore so I suppose that sound was required.

          To me where death metal and thrash intersect is probably Napalm Death's 1997 "Inside the Torn Apart." Pretty sure they're just in D standard using Marshalls but the tone is savage.

          Would the guitars sound thin now? Yeah, but to me they're articulate. The drums sound more real whereas drums now sound just--sampled. They're mostly triggered tones and not the real drum. Sadly, very little bass on the Napalm Death record, and bassist Shane Embury is one of the main members.

          The brutality came from Barney Greenway's voice, but that's just a thick Birmingham accent for you.

          Official Napalm Death CD/vinyl/merch: https://bit.ly/2NJjLdH Spotify - https://spoti.fi/2URimDTApple Music - https://apple.co/2URiXFDDeezer - https://bit.ly/...


          Contrast with "Plague Rages" for a dirtier death metal sound.

          Woofy like a Les Paul neck pickup.

          Napalm Death CD/vinyl/merch: https://bit.ly/2NJjLdH Spotify - https://spoti.fi/2IXwkDw Apple Music - https://apple.co/2H6CKyt Deezer - https://bit.ly/2TAuht4...


          I find unprocessed drums (basically drums that just sound like they're recorded in a ****ty room with overheads) require a lot more work to sound good. Like, you're trying to deliberately make it sound bad, but in a good way. It's great fun vs. a very processed and wet drum sound.

          I never found any problems with AJFA's production. MOP was so slick and polished, especially that dreamlike melodic interlude section. Justice was the anger, and the raw production made it angrier.

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          • #50
            Deathspell Omega, "Kenose," 2005. I mean those toms just literally slap. You can hear the heads reverberate. Great drum sound IMO.



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            • #51
              I don't mind And Justice. Many people think it's a bad record because of the boomy guitars and lack of bass, but I actually kinda like guitars like that, LOL. Maybe not to that extreme, but that record was made in the 80's. It's also borderline an example of why the guitarist should not have as much input in the mix as the person mixing himself, LOL. Then again, who am I to argue with James Hetfield, especially before he was a millionaire gray old fart? I LOVE LOVE LOVE the clicky drum on that record too and the almost Super Drummer-y snare tone, LOL. It's just the toms that stick out to me on that mix like a sore thumb.

              Master... yes, it sounds super clean (for the time), but at the same time, to me, it sounds very dated. Everything in the drums is drenched in reverb, including the kick. I hate that. Reverb on the kick, bass, or rhythm guitars is a cardinal sin to me.

              Each to his own. The whole Modded Marshall or IIC+ tones were a bit from before my time. I'm all about 5150 or Recto. Or Krank or ENGL Savage.
              Last edited by Rex_Rocker; 10-26-2023, 07:30 PM.

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              • #52
                I also dig this for a drum sound at 4:31. The kicks literally just thump. Absolutely no click. It gives it more muscle. That said, it's also meant to sound lo fi and ambient, WITTR being a hipster black metal band from the Pacific Northwest.

                don't act like stupid shitheads. enjoy the music.Artist: Wolves in the Throne RoomTitle: A Looming ResonanceAlbum: Malevolent Grain (EP)Year of Release: 2009...


                Agalloch has some good tones. Kind of Helmet-ish "St. Anger" kind of snare.



                Paradise Lost in drop A. With Adrian Erlandsson from At the Gates on drums. Kind of velvety guitar sound. Love Nick Holmes's voice. Very versatile. He's got the death metal, clean singing, and Hetfield in between all down.



                My Dying Bride. Interesting snare and drum parts on this and more kind of soft, textured guitars. The kicks coming in spurts and the snare just keeping quarters is not something you usually hear.



                And lastly Woods of Ypres, but not the one Glen Fricker rags on about the timing. This is probably the intersection of prog and doom metal for me. I would have thought Devin Townsend had produced it it sounds so slick.

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                • #53
                  Following the conversation so far, you guys will really get a kick out of this

                  The opinions expressed above do not necessarily represent those of the poster and are to be considered suspect at best.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by El Dunco View Post
                    Following the conversation so far, you guys will really get a kick out of this

                    https://toiletovhell.com/your-favori...was-triggered/
                    An article from the good old days... remember that one dude who emailed every band asking if they used any triggers or sample replacement or quantization in their drum recording so he could call them out for being "fake"? Funny. I remember reading that the kicks (and possibly snares) on a bunch of early 90s Nordic DM albums were recorded with trigger pads.

                    Inflames626, love DSO's sound and music, great call. Drought is my favorite mix of theirs.
                    Take it to the limit
                    Everybody to the limit
                    Come on Fhqwhgads

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Seashore View Post

                      An article from the good old days... remember that one dude who emailed every band asking if they used any triggers or sample replacement or quantization in their drum recording so he could call them out for being "fake"? Funny. I remember reading that the kicks (and possibly snares) on a bunch of early 90s Nordic DM albums were recorded with trigger pads.

                      Inflames626, love DSO's sound and music, great call. Drought is my favorite mix of theirs.
                      A lot of my friends in other bands use drum sound replacement software--Drumagog I think?

                      Good sounding rooms are expensive and often not possible within a recording budget.

                      Queensryche recorded "Rage for Order" in 1985-6 in a warehouse just for the purpose of the drum sound.

                      And then of course there's that story about John Bonham recording his drums for Zep in a castle or something.

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                      • #56
                        Yeah, Drums are one of the most expensive instruments to record. Hence why only higher budget productions seem to go for the room-y sound.

                        I ike samples blended in with the actual mic'd drum tones, personally.

                        Personally, hearing fast double kick lines withoug clicky kicks is almost like hearing fast palm-muted gallops without distortion. It's almost oxymoronical.

                        Those Paradise Lost drum tones you posted I'm 100% sure has some sample replacement/blending/enhacement in there.

                        I'm going to set The Black Album as an example. It's an album most people agree is a good-sounding heavy-ish record. There was sample replacement/enhacement involved as early as that.

                        They've done that in like 99% of Metal albums for a while unless they specifically go for an in-the-room vibe, which is rare, and IMO, it almost always backfires. Slaughter of the Soul's kick sample is stolen from Far Beyond Driven.
                        Last edited by Rex_Rocker; 10-27-2023, 11:43 AM.

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                        • #57
                          I have a LTD Rocco Prestia signature, with passive Aguilar P/J pickups and a 2 band Aguilar EQ and its awesome. I like the vintage sounding tones with a bit more tone shaping.
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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Rex_Rocker View Post
                            Yeah, Drums are one of the most expensive instruments to record. Hence why only higher budget productions seem to go for the room-y sound.

                            I ike samples blended in with the actual mic'd drum tones, personally.

                            Personally, hearing fast double kick lines withoug clicky kicks is almost like hearing fast palm-muted gallops without distortion. It's almost oxymoronical.

                            Those Paradise Lost drum tones you posted I'm 100% sure has some sample replacement/blending/enhacement in there.

                            I'm going to set The Black Album as an example. It's an album most people agree is a good-sounding heavy-ish record. There was sample replacement/enhacement involved as early as that.

                            They've done that in like 99% of Metal albums for a while unless they specifically go for an in-the-room vibe, which is rare, and IMO, it almost always backfires. Slaughter of the Soul's kick sample is stolen from Far Beyond Driven.
                            The clicks were originally put in so you could hear the double bass instead of feel it. Tones started trying to imitate Vinnie Paul sounding sets. Far Beyond Driven mentality.

                            The thing is that kind of drum sound is really thin.

                            I get the thinness. It's to emphasize drums, often at the expense of bass. I don't exactly hear a lot of Lars's double bass on a lot of 80s Metallica records because the kicks don't click. But removing thump from kick robs the music of power.

                            You end up with the modern Superior Drummer metal sound and it's...as boring as a gated snare got to be by the end of the 80s.

                            The power of the chug is the kick, bass, and guitar blended.

                            Cradle of Filth is probably a great example of the stereotypical modern metal tone. Adrian Erlandsson on this too (his brother Daniel has the same tone in Arch Enemy). Nick Barker in Dimmu Borgir had kind of the same sound.

                            I appreciate how precise it is and the technical aspect of it. But man does it start sounding Scott Travis drum machine-y after a few dozen albums.



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                            • #59
                              I do like CoF's guitar tone on this album, though. I'm guessing it's Marshalls, D standard. Thick but not boxy, not fizzy.

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                              • #60
                                Also, out of all musical forms besides industrial/synthwave/electronica/sound design, metal is probably going to be the most altered and least natural sounding genre. The way the instruments are supposed to sound are not how instruments sound in nature.

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