Pros and cons of 300k and 500k pots?

[papersoul]

Guys,

I recently changed my LP Standard back to stock including the junk Gibson 300k linear volume pots that do nothing. I like the tone of the guitar but hate that the pots do nothing. I want to try and retain the tone while increasing the function of the volume and tones pots.

I had at one time installed CTS 500k audio taper pots and the sweep and swell was great but the guitar got pretty darn bright since it is already a bright and lively LP. I am thinking maybe I could replace the Gibson 500k tone pots with better quality CTS 500k pots and replace the 300k linear volume pots with CTS 300k audio tapers. I am sure, may of you feel I should just go 500k all around.

I am also going to replace the ceramic disks with .022 orange drops. I still have those Hovland caps sitting around.

I have the stock Burstbucker Pros which are already low output; so it seemed to me to make more sense to use 300k pots. No? The BB Pros are pretty low around 8.6k or so and I realize this isn't the only way to judge a p'ups output, but they are only a little hotter than 57 classics and I guess on par with Duncan 59s and PGs. I would assume guitars using stock 57 classics get the 300k treatment? I say this since lower output p'ups don't have a hot wind, hence are naturally brighter calling for lower value pots. True?

I am a very confused individual at the moment.

Thanks for any help.

[papersoul]

Re: Pros and cons of 300k and 500k pots?

I wish I was better at soldering so I could do this myself and not rely on my tech to do the work! I shouldn't have to remove the pickups because I just want to mess with the pots, etc. But, I'd have to remove that metal plate which I hear is a pain and especially tricky when trying to get the pots perfectly set with the nuts, etc.

Another big issue I have is that the solder always balls up on the back of the pot. No matter what I do, I can't avoid this...but I hear a better quality iron such as Weller can make all the difference. I have a Radio Shack 30 watter.

[rspst14]

Re: Pros and cons of 300k and 500k pots?

The human ear doesn't hear volume in a linear fashion, which is why most manufacturers use audio taper pots. We do hear the rolloff of the high end frequencies in a linear fashion though, so your best bet would be to use 500k audio pots for the volume controls, and 500k linear pots for the tone controls. If you feel that's too bright, have your tech check the value of the pots he has in stock with a meter, and use the ones that measure the lowest. I've had 500k pots measure as low as 430k on a meter. I've always had good luck with Orange Drop caps, I use them in all my guitars. As far as the solder not sticking to the back of the pot, the wattage of your iron isn't the problem. Try lightly sanding the pot before you solder to it.

Ryan

[papersoul]

Re: Pros and cons of 300k and 500k pots?

Ryan, I mention the heat because my tech said that lower wattage irons can cause the ballig of the solder as I mentioned. Not always, but can contribute. I was advised on another forum to go with a 45 watt iron. My tech has never once sanded the back of his pots so it makes me wonder if I am doing something else wrong.

The linear/audio thing has me confused. Gibson comes stock with 500k audio taper tones and 300k linear taper volumes. I just want to improve the quality at this point and install CTS 500k audio taper tones and CTS 300k audio taper volumes. I rarely use the tone controls so it's not as big an issue. Why do so many receommend audio taper for volume and tone? I want to stick with the values Gibson uses since they seem to work but the quality of the actual pots/caps is poor to mediocre.

[rspst14]

Re: Pros and cons of 300k and 500k pots?

The main reason manufacturers use audio taper for both tone and volume is that it's easier and cheaper to keep one type of pot in stock. I'm surprised Gibson uses linear volumes and audio tones, that should really be reversed. It's not a big deal if you play with everything on 10 all the time, but you get a smoother, more natural sounding rolloff with audio tapered volume controls and linear tapered tone controls. As far as finding quality pots, I think the Dimarzio pots are the best I've tried. Kent recommended them to me, and I'm pretty happy with the quality. They are linear tapered, so I use them for my tone controls. I have a couple left over that I'm selling on Ebay at the moment, but they are push/pull pots.

As far as the solder not sticking, a higher wattage iron can help, but it also increases the probability of you overheating something if you're not experienced with soldering. I use a 30 watt iron, and I have no trouble getting solder to stick to the pot casings.

Ryan

[Thames]

Re: Pros and cons of 300k and 500k pots?

Dimarzio pots are high quality stuff. But CTS are fine.

I have a 30 watts Radio Shack soldering iron, and if you know how to handle it, you couldnt tell the diff between a Welder and RS...

Also, when soldering, both "parts" or junction must be hot, almost (if not) hot enough to melt solder by themselves, only then you'll have a strong joint. The common mistake is to melt solder with the gun and "drip" it on the contact point.

Definitely, if the 2 parts you're soldering cant stay together when you solder, you need a 3rd hand ...

[papersoul]

Re: Pros and cons of 300k and 500k pots?

Dimarzio pots are high quality stuff. But CTS are fine.

I have a 30 watts Radio Shack soldering iron, and if you know how to handle it, you couldnt tell the diff between a Welder and RS...

Also, when soldering, both "parts" or junction must be hot, almost (if not) hot enough to melt solder by themselves, only then you'll have a strong joint. The common mistake is to melt solder with the gun and "drip" it on the contact point.

Definitely, if the 2 parts you're soldering cant stay together when you solder, you need a 3rd hand ...

I have been lately just holding the wire to the pot with the iron tip and
then applying the solder to the wire/pot. I tried just heating the back of the pot and then the wire but found it impossible because they never get hot enough to allow the solder to just melt onto the pot. I burned out a pot that way.

[slightly_rude]

Re: Pros and cons of 300k and 500k pots?

The main reason manufacturers use audio taper for both tone and volume is that it's easier and cheaper to keep one type of pot in stock. I'm surprised Gibson uses linear volumes and audio tones, that should really be reversed.
Ryan

The reason why Gibson does this is because the majority of their guitars have a volume and tone pot for each pickup and when you have the pickup selector switch in the center position, the linear taper volume pots give you a wider range of blending between the two pickups.

[Kent S.]

Re: Pros and cons of 300k and 500k pots?

If you want a 300k pot tone from 500k, take and solder a *750k* resistor (or as close to that value as possible, use a 1% metal film and you can get preety close ... go a bit higher), solder it from the CW lug to ground on each volume pot ... that will load it like a 300k but you'll have the 500k taper.
That's the easy solution.

[Kent S.]

Re: Pros and cons of 300k and 500k pots?

Ryan, I mention the heat because my tech said that lower wattage irons can cause the ballig of the solder as I mentioned. Not always, but can contribute. I was advised on another forum to go with a 45 watt iron. My tech has never once sanded the back of his pots so it makes me wonder if I am doing something else wrong.

The linear/audio thing has me confused. Gibson comes stock with 500k audio taper tones and 300k linear taper volumes. I just want to improve the quality at this point and install CTS 500k audio taper tones and CTS 300k audio taper volumes. I rarely use the tone controls so it's not as big an issue. Why do so many receommend audio taper for volume and tone? I want to stick with the values Gibson uses since they seem to work but the quality of the actual pots/caps is poor to mediocre.

Gibson's reasoning for the 300k had to do with the changeover to ceramic magnets at the time (I don't really know this to be a fact per se', or if there really was any one reason, but they warm up the ceramics a lot and don't overly effect the A5s), the reason for the linear taper ... I don't now, maybe it's just what they got at the time.
Concerning the iron, I use a 40watts iron for everything except fine PCB work, the sanding helps, I generally don't have a problem with the solder balling. The 500k pots will always let you get a bit brighter if you need to, taper, well, the audio taper on a tone ensures that you can use a higher valued pot without the majority of the pot rotation being wasted. A linear will work there as well, but if you put (for example only) a 2Meg linear in there, you wouldn't hear much of a change until you got it about down to 2 or 3. an audio gives a more even response in the pot's travel (generally), but a linear enables a larger travel in which to make subtle changes.

[Kent S.]

Re: Pros and cons of 300k and 500k pots?

The reason why Gibson does this is because the majority of their guitars have a volume and tone pot for each pickup and when you have the pickup selector switch in the center position, the linear taper volume pots give you a wider range of blending between the two pickups.

That too is a good point, as with audio all the action takes place around 10~8 or so, think about it, with an audio taper at 7.5 your pup is down 6dB, at 5 is down 20dB (have as loud) ... so I agree that once you get the pups lowered to much it doesn't makes much if any difference when mixing them.

[papersoul]

Re: Pros and cons of 300k and 500k pots?

That too is a good point, as with audio all the action takes place around 10~8 or so, think about it, with an audio taper at 7.5 your pup is down 6dB, at 5 is down 20dB (have as loud) ... so I agree that once you get the pups lowered to much it doesn't makes much if any difference when mixing them.

So how does linear differ in this case?

[papersoul]

Re: Pros and cons of 300k and 500k pots?

The reason why Gibson does this is because the majority of their guitars have a volume and tone pot for each pickup and when you have the pickup selector switch in the center position, the linear taper volume pots give you a wider range of blending between the two pickups.

The thing that confuses me is that the volume pots are basically on/off switches and I don't hear much difference till it is down to about 2-3 on the dial. That seems like a waste. When I installed CTS 500k audio taper pots, I instantly noticed I had usable tones through most of the sweep other than very low like 1-3. I would rather be able to make a major change by a slight turn of the knob especially when in the heat of playing live rather than having to accurately turn down to about 2-3 as with the linear and taking a chance of basically turning off the pickup! The only thing I didn't like was the added brightness so that is why I am going to install CTS 300k audios in the volume slots and CTS 500k audio tones (I rarely use tone controls if ever), plus better quality caps such as orange drops. I found the Hovlands too bright and shrill.

[Kent S.]

Re: Pros and cons of 300k and 500k pots?

So how does linear differ in this case?

I just answered that, linear allows a larger travel and makes subtle changes easier ... such as adjusting the balance between two pups, once you get one but so low ... well you won't notice much difference past that point.

[Kent S.]

Re: Pros and cons of 300k and 500k pots?

The thing that confuses me is that the volume pots are basically on/off switches and I don't hear much difference till it is down to about 2-3 on the dial. That seems like a waste.

What you described is pretty much a linear ... you go to do a volume rolls and they kinda turn on, get luder, and then not much louder. But a waste no, all depends on your application, and tastes. I was talking about using a resistor early but I forgot that cts does make logs in 300k as well. Looks like you got exactly waht you need then ...