Flatsawn vs Quartersawn.

[jalguitarman]

Is the difference just in strength or does it impact the tone anyway? Is quartersawn ok for vintage tone?

[kramer.geetar]

Re: Flatsawn vs Quartersawn.

Hey I wondered about this also before, got some good information from Musikraft when looking through their site. I'll paste for you....

Flat Sawn-Quarter Sawn:

One of the many options that we offer is the choice between Quarter Sawn and Flat Sawn woods for our necks. There are many questions that come up when discussing the differences between these two woods and hopefully we can try to answer some of those questions here and explain some of the differences as well. Shown here in this photo is a Flat Sawn neck with a standard fingerboard on the left and a Quarter sawn neck with a vintage veneer contoured fingerboard on the right. As you can see from the picture, the grain lines on the flat sawn neck are running left to right and the grain lines on the quarter sawn neck are running up and down. Quarter sawn and flat sawn woods are cut with a different grain orientation and come from different areas of the tree. This greatly affects the internal strength of both and subsequently, the quarter sawn neck tends to be a tighter grain and allot stronger and more stable than the flat sawn.The quarter sawn wood is usually very straight and rigid and the flat sawn is much more pliable. There are advantages to both types of woods. Due to its strength and stability, the quarter sawn is a great wood for use with heavier string gauges, unfinished necks, necks with a stronger dual acting truss rod, and longer necks like bass necks etc. There is also a difference in tone on these woods. The quarter sawn has a distinctly brighter tone due to its density. The Flat sawn neck tends to have a more mellow tone and is more pliable so it is better for use with vintage style, single acting truss rods and does very well with a hard finish but can also be left unfinished as well. Aesthetically speaking, the wood grain is much more visible on a flat sawn neck as opposed to a quarter sawn neck. Flamey and Birdseye necks are most often flat sawn.

[metalchurch79]

Re: Flatsawn vs Quartersawn.

I prefer quartersawn, because they are more stable, and stronger.

[pzaxtl]

Re: Flatsawn vs Quartersawn.

Wood moves tangential to the growth rings. With flatsawn lumber, dimensional movement occurs along the width; with quartersawn, that movement occurs along the thickness, which means that QS lumber moves much less with seasonal changes in humidity and temperature. Technically, if you had a piece of quartersawn lumber that was as thick as a piece of flatsawn lumber is wide, then the amount of dimensional change would be roughly the same. Nonetheless, quartersawn lumber is much more stable.

In addition to stability, quartersawn lumber is stronger in both tension and shear. That doesn't really matter with guitar bodies, but with necks, the difference is important!

I personally doubt that there is any discernable difference in tone between the two. I'm sure there is someone, somewhere that claims they can hear the differences in tone, but I don't believe it.

[blueman335]

Re: Flatsawn vs Quartersawn.

I personally doubt that there is any discernable difference in tone between the two. I'm sure there is someone, somewhere that claims they can hear the differences in tone, but I don't believe it.

Actually there should be a difference in tone & response, as the density is so different, but you've also got the body wood and amp in there effecting tone too. It would be pretty hard for the average player to tell what the cut of the neck wood does to his tone with all the other factors present too. A manufacturer or luthier could isolate this effect of the neck wood.

[Bludave]

Re: Flatsawn vs Quartersawn.

In general its an issue more with acoustic guitars. Quartersawn is more stable & less likely going to split as easily as flatsawn woods. Flatsawn can be prettier to look at, but it will move differently. For electrics I would just be concerned with the neck.

[jalguitarman]

Re: Flatsawn vs Quartersawn.

In general its an issue more with acoustic guitars. Quartersawn is more stable & less likely going to split as easily as flatsawn woods. Flatsawn can be prettier to look at, but it will move differently. For electrics I would just be concerned with the neck.

Yeah thats what i am looking at is the neck in this case.

[jalguitarman]

Re: Flatsawn vs Quartersawn.

Hey I wondered about this also before, got some good information from Musikraft when looking through their site. I'll paste for you....

Flat Sawn-Quarter Sawn:

One of the many options that we offer is the choice between Quarter Sawn and Flat Sawn woods for our necks. There are many questions that come up when discussing the differences between these two woods and hopefully we can try to answer some of those questions here and explain some of the differences as well. Shown here in this photo is a Flat Sawn neck with a standard fingerboard on the left and a Quarter sawn neck with a vintage veneer contoured fingerboard on the right. As you can see from the picture, the grain lines on the flat sawn neck are running left to right and the grain lines on the quarter sawn neck are running up and down. Quarter sawn and flat sawn woods are cut with a different grain orientation and come from different areas of the tree. This greatly affects the internal strength of both and subsequently, the quarter sawn neck tends to be a tighter grain and allot stronger and more stable than the flat sawn.The quarter sawn wood is usually very straight and rigid and the flat sawn is much more pliable. There are advantages to both types of woods. Due to its strength and stability, the quarter sawn is a great wood for use with heavier string gauges, unfinished necks, necks with a stronger dual acting truss rod, and longer necks like bass necks etc. There is also a difference in tone on these woods. The quarter sawn has a distinctly brighter tone due to its density. The Flat sawn neck tends to have a more mellow tone and is more pliable so it is better for use with vintage style, single acting truss rods and does very well with a hard finish but can also be left unfinished as well. Aesthetically speaking, the wood grain is much more visible on a flat sawn neck as opposed to a quarter sawn neck. Flamey and Birdseye necks are most often flat sawn.

Cool!! Thanks That does help. I may stick with flatsawn. Although Eric Johnsons sig strat uses quartersawn so its llikely not bad, I would bet that the vintage fender sound was all flatsawn stuff. I am going with a single rod i have decided. All this means i have a neck going backonce i get ti. Oh well, live and learn. See i made 2 bobo boss. birdseye neck and double trussrod. Thing is it may sound good but at this point i am afiiad to try it.

[uOpt]

Re: Flatsawn vs Quartersawn.

If stability was all we care about we'd all be using Kramer aluminium neck-throughs by now.

I don't think that QS will be more stable as in how much does it bend when you turn a guitar with heavy tuners face-down. No way. You have the grain going the wrong way there.

It will be more stable against temperature and humidity changes and require less truss rod adjustments.

Obviously it will sound different if the stability is different.

[vinterland]

Re: Flatsawn vs Quartersawn.

Once again I bet no one would be able to tell a difference in tone between the two. These threads are amazing.

[jalguitarman]

Re: Flatsawn vs Quartersawn.

Once again I bet no one would be able to tell a difference in tone between the two. These threads are amazing.

It may sound kind of obsessive but such facts are helpful to know if you are really trying to nail an authentic tone be it a certain hard rock tone or something that is authentic vintage as in my situation.

how do you know unless you ask?? Unless you research??? unless you seek advice from those who have experiance where you are lacking??

[uOpt]

Re: Flatsawn vs Quartersawn.

Actually, it's likely that this difference is much more audible than the difference between two pieces of regular cut maple.

If that was inaudible, why don't we all have allparts necks (with new frets) in our U.S. Fenders? Because we think the U.S. Fender neck sounds better.

[pzaxtl]

Re: Flatsawn vs Quartersawn.

Actually there should be a difference in tone & response, as the density is so different, but you've also got the body wood and amp in there effecting tone too. It would be pretty hard for the average player to tell what the cut of the neck wood does to his tone with all the other factors present too. A manufacturer or luthier could isolate this effect of the neck wood.

Blueman, I respect you opinion a great deal and have closely followed your postings, however, I gotta disagree with you on this one. The density of wood is in no way determined by how the wood is milled. Density is determined by the cellular structure of the wood and it's growth ring density. Slower growing trees produce denser lumber, which is why maple is heavier and denser than spruce. All Wood is composed principally of bundles of tubular cellulose structures that, under a microscope resemble drinking straws, bound together by lignin, which is more or less a glue. These structures run longitudinally along the length of the trunk and branches of a tree. How a piece of lumber is milled -- flatsawn or quartersawn -- in no way alters the physical density or arrangement of those structures. How a piece of lumber is milled simply determines how those structures are presented relative to the face grain and end grain of the board. Quartersawn lumber is not more dense than flatsawn, but it is more stable. Yes, I suppose that since QS presents the grain of the wood in a different orientation than flatsawn, it's possible that it affects the velocity of sound within the board differently than flatsawn, giving it a faster attack, (which supposedly QS lumber does) but that is not the same thing as affecting the tone of the wood. All in all, this is entirely subjective and the only way to prove it would be to flatsaw and quartersaw the exact same piece of wood and compare it to itself. That is the only way to definitively determine any change in response or tone based on how the lumber is milled, but that is not possible.

[jtougas]

Re: Flatsawn vs Quartersawn.

Activate powers of necrothread resurrection!

When it comes to flatsawn necks, how much does it matter which direction the grain cupping go in - if it does at all? My memory is teasing me that even minimal cupping towards the fingerboard is bad, and that the outer edges of the ring should pull downward, if your looking at the heel with the fretboard up. Am I wrong in this?

[AlexR]

Re: Flatsawn vs Quartersawn.

The fretboard glued on there helps a lot for stability......in fact even headstock veneer thickness helps. The wood type also makes a difference. Flatsawn tends to mean maple, which whilst not immune to cupping, is certainly more able than say mahogany to resist movement.