why is there so much tension on some guitars?

[drew_half_empty]

I used to have a gibson scale schecter tempest with jumbo frets that made 10's feel like 11's

My gretsch is gibson scale, has a bigsby, a bar bridge, a tusq nut, and there's still quite a bit of tension on it--probably more than on my strat, and definitely more than my LP


so what gives?

 

[Coma]

Re: why is there so much tension on some guitars?

I read somewhere here that it stems from having an overly loosened truss rod. This would bend the neck backwards, thus increasing the string length in relation to the guitar as a whole (not the scale length, though), thus increasing tension. If this is the case, then prolly what you could do is tighten the truss rod, and adjust the rest of the guitar accordingly.

If this increases string height at the nut severly, you might even have to file down the nut a bit.

At least that's what I've heard. But prolly make sure and get affirmation from a secondary source before actually making any adjustments.

 

[ImmortalSix]

Re: why is there so much tension on some guitars?

I have seen this thread before :laughing:

"Some guitars are just, like, different, man"

"I disagree! Here is an article I found on Premier Guitar that proves that it's related to physical factors!"

"Well yeah man, of course it's based on physical factors, but wood is so heterogeneous that we can't expect two like guitars to feel the same"

"x2"

"x2"

"+1"

"guitars just feel how they feel, man"

"didn't you read the first response?"

"what?"

"x2"

"I remember seeing an article on Premier Guitar breaking down the science of it, anybody have a link?"

"JAYZUS CHROIST!"

"x2"

"it is what it is, man."

 

[krs]

Re: why is there so much tension on some guitars?

I read somewhere here that it stems from having an overly loosened truss rod. This would bend the neck backwards, thus increasing the string length in relation to the guitar as a whole (not the scale length, though), thus increasing tension. If this is the case, then prolly what you could do is tighten the truss rod, and adjust the rest of the guitar accordingly.

Backaward. A loose truss rod means that the strings able to pull more, adding relief. A truss rod is tightened to counter the pull of the strings, thereby straightening the neck. Over-tightening could cause back-bow in this situation.

 

[uOpt]

Re: why is there so much tension on some guitars?

On most necks the neck easily gives way as you bend. You can easily test that by striking the strings and turning the guitar face-down. Just the weight of the tuners will bend the neck enough for audible downtuning from that. Putting in a "good" truss rod that holds it back like a Zumo wrestler will make the guitar feel still while playing, not to mention most of these heavy double truss rods make the guitar sounds like **** anyway.

You want what airplane wings do: they are strong and always return to the same position but they flex quite a bit during normal operations.

You also have bridge differences. The more distance between the saddle and the hard anchor point (e.g. the rear end of the stop tailpiece. eh) the softer. Strings through body are softer still.

 

[Coma]

Re: why is there so much tension on some guitars?

Backaward. A loose truss rod means that the strings able to pull more, adding relief. A truss rod is tightened to counter the pull of the strings, thereby straightening the neck. Over-tightening could cause back-bow in this situation.

THX bro, I knew I had gotten something wrong somewhere :9:

Putting in a "good" truss rod that holds it back like a Zumo wrestler will make the guitar feel still while playing

Yeah, but aren't Gretsch guitars all set necks? Changing the truss rod isn't really an option then.

 

[uOpt]

Re: why is there so much tension on some guitars?

I was just bashing double truss rods and other stiff and heavy variants in general. I didn't want to imply you can do anything about it.

One way to lessen stiffness is wrapping the strings around the tailpiece. Increasing the distance between saddle and tailpiece works and might be an option for people who mount a Bigsby anyway.

 

[drew_half_empty]

Re: why is there so much tension on some guitars?

I was just bashing double truss rods and other stiff and heavy variants in general. I didn't want to imply you can do anything about it.

One way to lessen stiffness is wrapping the strings around the tailpiece. Increasing the distance between saddle and tailpiece works and might be an option for people who mount a Bigsby anyway.

Well I have the big trapeze-style one, so there's a good 3-4" of string between the bigsby and the bridge already. If I created any more I may have problems getting the wound strings to reach the tuners. The angle isn't that drastic either...

 

[PoorMan]

Re: why is there so much tension on some guitars?

Is there a real sharp string angle at the headstock and/or brigde? That's a common cause for high string tension.

 

[King IzzO)))]

Re: why is there so much tension on some guitars?

Play lighter strings on it?

 

[sosomething]

Re: why is there so much tension on some guitars?

Yeah, but aren't Gretsch guitars all set necks? Changing the truss rod isn't really an option then.

Changing a trussrod isn't really an option ever. Not a viable repair.

In just about every single situation it would be both cheaper and easier to replace the whole neck. Even with a set-neck guitar.

as for the original question...

Why would two guitars with the same specs, string gauge, scale length, etc. feel so different re: string tension??

I HAVE NEVER UNDERSTOOD WHY.

I don't think anyone understands why.

It's freaking weird, is what it is.

Dark and mysterious.

 

[drew_half_empty]

Re: why is there so much tension on some guitars?

Changing a trussrod isn't really an option ever. Not a viable repair.

In just about every single situation it would be both cheaper and easier to replace the whole neck. Even with a set-neck guitar.

as for the original question...

Why would two guitars with the same specs, string gauge, scale length, etc. feel so different re: string tension??

I HAVE NEVER UNDERSTOOD WHY.

I don't think anyone understands why.

It's freaking weird, is what it is.

Dark and mysterious.

That's basically the answer I was looking for

Maybe I'll throw some Thomasik flats on it next time instead of the dildario chromes--supposedly there's less tension

 

[Coma]

Re: why is there so much tension on some guitars?

Well, theoretically, two matching guitars can still have varations in the wood structure of the neck (thickness, grain etc) that would provide the necks with varying degrees of stiffness and rigidity, thus in turn requring different tensions needed in the truss rod.

The real question then would be, of course, are those differences really so protrudent that one would notice?

 

[sosomething]

Re: why is there so much tension on some guitars?

Well, theoretically, two matching guitars can still have varations in the wood structure of the neck (thickness, grain etc) that would provide the necks with varying degrees of stiffness and rigidity, thus in turn requring different tensions needed in the truss rod.

The real question then would be, of course, are those differences really so protrudent that one would notice?

The trussrod does not affect string tension.

It affects neck relief - or, the amount of backward force counteracting the forward-pull being exerted by the strings. The force of the strings pulls the neck forward. The trussrod pulls it back to almost straight again.

Tightening or loosening the trussrod isn't going to affect tension in a direct or really measurable way.

The mystery remains mysterious.

 

[sosomething]

Re: why is there so much tension on some guitars?

That's basically the answer I was looking for

Maybe I'll throw some Thomasik flats on it next time instead of the dildario chromes--supposedly there's less tension

Flat-wounds have much more tension than normal round-wound.

 

[Coma]

Re: why is there so much tension on some guitars?

I know the truss rod doesn't really affect tension, but rather, adjusts tension in the neck.

Still, adjusting it should affect tension, since you are altering the length of the string.

 

[uOpt]

Re: why is there so much tension on some guitars?

Do the test with turning the guitar, while it makes a sound, on it's face. Then you know how flexible the truss rod is. In a good guitar.

 

[King IzzO)))]

Re: why is there so much tension on some guitars?

I do think a more rigid truss rod would affect tension by not allowing the neck to flex at all during bends, kinda like a floating trem effect, I don't think you'd notice any difference while not bending though.

The length past the bridge to the tailpiece, bridge to tailpiece height and headstock angle all do affect tension.

 

[Coma]

Re: why is there so much tension on some guitars?

Oh, and put some nines on it. I used to be able to pull of 3 whole-step bends on my LP with 'em

 

[drew_half_empty]

Re: why is there so much tension on some guitars?

It's a jazz guitar--I don't bend, I slide. The tension problem is mainly, well, a problem, because of the hand fatigue it causes doin big chords. I can only play that guitar for so long before I have to pick up a different one