Fender Mustang Vibrato: Setup Guide

[allbutromeo]

Re: Fender Mustang Vibrato: Setup Guide

Check out The Creamery, they have a wide variety of Mustang/Duo Sonic pickups, just about every strat model they also offer for Mustangs. I ordered a set of the Sonic '60s for my 76 Mustang, but they haven't arrived yet (hand made to order and shipping from UK to the US take a while)

https://www.creamery-pickups.co.uk/custom-handwound-pickups-from-the-creamery/mustang-and-duo-sonic-pickups-vintage-modern-and-custom-pickups.html#classic

[daniels102]

Re: Fender Mustang Vibrato: Setup Guide

Very interesting regarding the Creamery! I checked them out and they seem impressive, especially for the price - it also helps I'm UK based so Manchester is good for shipping costs. My only concern is the 30 day turnaround time and just whether to go with Seymour Duncan Antiquitys, I always prefer to go with branded in case I plan on selling things in the future! Saving almost half the price though and I like the idea of supporting an independent maker. Cant really decide as the antiquitys get fantastic reviews but I am very tempted by either the Classic 64 & Classic 69 models!

You'll have to let me know how yours are, be very interested to hear!

Regarding the plate, they seem cheap to replace, but I do wonder to see how long the countersinks lasts, I drilled very wide so perhaps this will make it last longer - though it also could be shorter as there's less material on the thinnest part now...

Oh and regarding the pickups, I actually cant get mine to sit particularly well at the moment because I cant find any damn screws short enough to not hit the bottom of the rout/body of the guitar. I will most likely just mess about with them/copy what my strat heights are like on my strat. I've read from some places that too high will suck the sustain, which I've probably done as my e and a are pretty dead at the moment.

Regarding staggered or flat, I've always found this very confusing, I never paid any attention until last month I noticed the SSL1s id bought for my Strat were staggered. I'll probably go for flat as I got confused, the main difference seems to be around whether you G is plain or not. Well the ernie ball 11s I use on this guitar do have a plain G, so im guessing I DO want staggered? Or I don't?

Very confusing!

[Silence Kid]

Re: Fender Mustang Vibrato: Setup Guide

Stagger is the last thing I worry about, usually. But with a Mustang in particular (having a higher bridge than a Strat,) it helps to get more output if you use a Strat pickup; even a non-staggered Strat pickup has higher poles than a stock pickup. On some Mustangs the pickup can go 100% up yet not contact the strings. Staggered poles would be even higher than that. In either case you would not want to use the stock covers.

[Silence Kid]

Re: Fender Mustang Vibrato: Setup Guide

Self-bump since I'm using this as my Mustang aggregator: I replaced the repro/Japanese bridge on my '66 Mustang with a vintage (purportedly also '66) bridge and cups. This is on my bastard Mustang; It's a '66 neck and refin '66 body, for which I'm on a gradual quest to replace all the repro bits I used to get it running. Coincidence; everything I've found so far (except the pickguard) are also '66 parts.

A few points of detail:

• The reason for the swap is success I had with a vintage Jaguar bridge on my MIJ Jaguar. Compared to Japanese, the original US bridge is MUCH more solid (due to tighter tolerances in the intonation holes and stiffer springs) and has different-sized steel saddles, as opposed to zinc (nothing against zinc; it's just not what the originals had.) I assumed the vintage Mustang bridge would be similarly more stable, and I was correct
• A difference exists between original and new bridge cups. Reproduction/newer bridge cups are much shallower than was used originally; so shallow that with newer cups you could back the height grub screws out of the bridge entirely and not realize it, because the bridge is still a mm or so above the plate. With the vintage cups, this is not possible
• The deeper cups introduce differences in the geometry in the rocking of the bridge, where the bridge takes a larger radius path for an equal action height. The bridge seems to be more stable this way; less easy to knock around say when turning intonation screws with a screwdriver
• I think this varies, but my vintage cups do not allow as great a range for rocking as the newer cups; they are tighter around the bridge posts
• Not ever a problem on Mustangs, but like a US Jaguar bridge the intonation screws are shorter; the long screws cause problems on Japanese Jaguar bridges
• Dimension-wise, the posts and such are roughly the same between the Japanese and US bridges; threads of course are imperial

So how does it sound? Who freaking knows. I broke two strings doing the swap, and only have Ernie Ball RPS sets on hand (that don't work with Mustangs.) This bridge was nearly frozen in rust, so needed to be totally disassembled. I'll chime in later, for now I can at least tell the high E string saddle is a lot more stable (which was my primary driver for swapping bridges.)



*Also- I amended the setup guide based on something I recognized & rectified a few weeks ago on this Mustang: the posts were a loose fit to the threads in the cigar, which resulted in a bit of trem screwiness at the extreme ends of the unit's range; not so much that it really had an effect on tuning, but there was a definite slop in the feel. As a quick fix, superglue on the threads of the post screws worked, but I assume there are better materials that could be used.

[allbutromeo]

Re: Fender Mustang Vibrato: Setup Guide

My Creamery pickups finally arrived today, hopefully I get the in this weekend. It took two months, hope I'm not disappointed

[daniels102]

Re: Fender Mustang Vibrato: Setup Guide

I have had some on order for about a month! Asked Jaime to create some similar to the SD Antiquities, still awaiting an invoice. Think he is very busy atm. Let me know how they sound!

[allbutromeo]

Re: Fender Mustang Vibrato: Setup Guide

Well, now this project is delayed. The new pickups are taller than the old ones so I'm either going to have to shim the neck up or rout the pickup cavities for clearance. Also once I had the strings of I noticed the frets in the "cowboy chord" range are starting to get divots in them from the strings. So the guitar will be going to a luthier friend to get these issues fixed and a proper setup.

[Silence Kid]

Re: Fender Mustang Vibrato: Setup Guide

I'm alarmed if there's a single coil that can't be set low enough in a Mustang. Pics?

[allbutromeo]

Re: Fender Mustang Vibrato: Setup Guide

Stock pickup-slightly less than 11/16"

Sonic 60- 3/4"

So not a huge difference, but just enough. I also had to trim the screws down some, the were longer than the originals, but a different diameter and thread pitch. The screw is also hitting on the solder on the shielding plates

Idk if these issues will occur on MIJ models, this is an American 1976 model YMMV

[dagnabbit]

Re: Fender Mustang Vibrato: Setup Guide

I recommend not going with a non-rocking or non-roller bridge on a Mustang, because trem range is huge.

I'm currently wrestling with the trem & tuning on my 2003 CIJ Mustang, so this thread has been hugely enlightening!

My original bridge rattled like crazy, and given that you can't order Staytrem from the US anymore, I bought a Mastery bridge for my Mustang. But seeing your comments about non-rocking bridges, I'm wondering if that was the wrong move? What specific issues would you expect to see with a non-rocking bridge on a Mustang.

I'm wondering now if I should try a Johnny Marr Jaguar bridge, which people seem to say is similar to the Staytrem.

Any thoughts?

[Silence Kid]

Re: Fender Mustang Vibrato: Setup Guide

I'm currently wrestling with the trem & tuning on my 2003 CIJ Mustang, so this thread has been hugely enlightening!

My original bridge rattled like crazy, and given that you can't order Staytrem from the US anymore, I bought a Mastery bridge for my Mustang. But seeing your comments about non-rocking bridges, I'm wondering if that was the wrong move? What specific issues would you expect to see with a non-rocking bridge on a Mustang.

I'm wondering now if I should try a Johnny Marr Jaguar bridge, which people seem to say is similar to the Staytrem.

Any thoughts?

There's a thread on Offsetguitars.com in the last month detailing tuning issues due to strings binding on a Mastery, along with saddle movement and other problems - and that was on a Jazzmaster, where there's a lot less movement going on than a Mustang. Actually if you search that forum, you'll find a lot of threads about people's issues with the Mastery; they are not fool-proof.

(In fact: In my opinion people often try to use Mastery bridges to mask other setup problems and 'treat the symptoms' of a bad setup - in other words, by the time they get the Mastery running they could have used the stock bridge just fine. I sort of side-eye that bridge for that reason - they can work fine on a Jaguar/Jazzmaster if you put the effort in, but relatively few people use them on Mustangs and I *suspect* there'd be too much friction on a Mustang vs. a Jaguar/Jazzmaster for a Mastery to work as-designed. Try it if you have it though; it may work.)

For yours, first I'd try stretching the intonation springs out on your existing MIJ bridge so the saddles are firm/can't move on the bridge baseplate. That's really the only place the Mustang bridge can 'rattle' and it's a sore spot for the MIJs in general. The Marr bridge will probably work fine, be aware the radius is different; this may or may not be noticeable on your setup. I'm pretty sure (but have not verified) that bridge is also used on the new American Performer Mustangs. You also might be able to find a deal on a vintage Mustang bridge, that's what I have done.

[dagnabbit]

Re: Fender Mustang Vibrato: Setup Guide

There's a thread on Offsetguitars.com in the last month detailing tuning issues due to strings binding on a Mastery, along with saddle movement and other problems - and that was on a Jazzmaster, where there's a lot less movement going on than a Mustang. Actually if you search that forum, you'll find a lot of threads about people's issues with the Mastery; they are not fool-proof.

(In fact: In my opinion people often try to use Mastery bridges to mask other setup problems and 'treat the symptoms' of a bad setup - in other words, by the time they get the Mastery running they could have used the stock bridge just fine. I sort of side-eye that bridge for that reason - they can work fine on a Jaguar/Jazzmaster if you put the effort in, but relatively few people use them on Mustangs and I *suspect* there'd be too much friction on a Mustang vs. a Jaguar/Jazzmaster for a Mastery to work as-designed. Try it if you have it though; it may work.)

For yours, first I'd try stretching the intonation springs out on your existing MIJ bridge so the saddles are firm/can't move on the bridge baseplate. That's really the only place the Mustang bridge can 'rattle' and it's a sore spot for the MIJs in general. The Marr bridge will probably work fine, be aware the radius is different; this may or may not be noticeable on your setup. I'm pretty sure (but have not verified) that bridge is also used on the new American Performer Mustangs. You also might be able to find a deal on a vintage Mustang bridge, that's what I have done.

Thank you! I will find that thread on Offsetguitars.com and check it out.

One of the things that drove me away from my original bridge was the fact that the saddles *seemed* to have too much left/right play between them -- I always wondered if they were rattling against each other at times. But I'll check out the springs and see how that affects things.

I believe the Marr bridge would be the right radius for my MG73-CO Mustang anyway -- they're both 7.25" -- but I will definitely experiment further with the two bridges I've got before buying another.

Thank you again for your thoughts! If I discover anything useful, I'll report back.

[Silence Kid]

Re: Fender Mustang Vibrato: Setup Guide

The MIJ bridges in particular seem really susceptible to that 'slop' that allows the saddles to move side to side; even if they don't rattle audibly, you lose string energy when the high E in particular moves; the other strings typically stay in place better. That said, MIJ Jaguars/Jazzmasters are affected worse by that affliction than the US-made bridges (which at least for the example I posted on page 1 , is a ROCK solid bridge.)

As-mentioned, the basic reasons the original/'60s US bridges are more solid are the much thicker intonation springs, and the much tighter tolerance of the screws in the baseplate. Even Squier does this better than the MIJ bridges nowadays, BTW (on average.) Staytrem uses nylon bushings to keep each intonation screw solid in the baseplate so they can't move, but really you just need stiffer/longer springs to avoid this problem.

[dagnabbit]

Re: Fender Mustang Vibrato: Setup Guide

The MIJ bridges in particular seem really susceptible to that 'slop' that allows the saddles to move side to side; even if they don't rattle audibly, you lose string energy when the high E in particular moves; the other strings typically stay in place better. That said, MIJ Jaguars/Jazzmasters are affected worse by that affliction than the US-made bridges (which at least for the example I posted on page 1 , is a ROCK solid bridge.)

As-mentioned, the basic reasons the original/'60s US bridges are more solid are the much thicker intonation springs, and the much tighter tolerance of the screws in the baseplate. Even Squier does this better than the MIJ bridges nowadays, BTW (on average.) Staytrem uses nylon bushings to keep each intonation screw solid in the baseplate so they can't move, but really you just need stiffer/longer springs to avoid this problem.

You're giving me hope that, with some patience, I can sort this thing out! I'd been getting pretty discouraged about it.

The last time I took the Mustang to my tech, I asked him about the nut, which I haven't modified at all in the nine months I've owned the guitar, but he didn't think it was an issue.

I've got 11s on it (Power Slinkys), and I've wondered if -- in addition to other stuff -- they are sticking at the nut, but I don't know how to assess this visually. It certainly looks tighter to me than some of my other guitars, and I'm planning to try some Lubrikit on it this weekend. But I'll also post a couple photos of its current state here (if I can figure out how) in case you see any red flags?

[Silence Kid]

Re: Fender Mustang Vibrato: Setup Guide

My best advice there is - try pressing the string behind the nut to see if it stays in tune or gets put out - of course you need to consider that by pressing on the string you may be moving the trem somewhat as well. It’s a hard thing for me to eyeball, maybe someone else can; I use 9s on my Mustang though so my nut slots are prob. roomier than they should be ideally.

Stick with it, but at risk of repeating myself- the knife edges really are the weak point, and it’s worse on import vibratos and MIJ. Make sure they stay sharp, and make sure the counter-sink is there. I’m actually intrigued by the more robust pivot points on the new American Professional Mustangs, seems like it could save headaches (but requires routing.)