My Nitro Refin Progress Thread

[Lake Placid Blues]

Re: My Nitro Refin Progress Thread

Ah.

[Silence Kid]

Re: My Nitro Refin Progress Thread

Are you seeing the reflection? Maybe I'm missing it but looks fine in real life; slight different angle; think an optical illusion?

[Lake Placid Blues]

Re: My Nitro Refin Progress Thread

Better. That's the nice thing about nitro; re-does and working it are relatively easy. Looks like you still have an issue in the upper cut out.

[Silence Kid]

Re: My Nitro Refin Progress Thread

Better?

[Lake Placid Blues]

Re: My Nitro Refin Progress Thread

What probably happened with the blush was the humidity was too high and the surface hardened before enough gasses could get out.

Your probably shooting from slightly too far away, and not getting it wet enough to cause the excessive orange peel. It is a fine line between shooting too dry and too wet. You usually have to shoot it slightly dry inside the double cuts, as that is where runs usually can happen, but slightly wetter over the flat surfaces. Was it breezy at the time? Yes, some orange peel usually happens with spray cans, but it should not be too much. Sand with 400 hundred to take off the orange peel and if you sand through in this case you probably want to re-shoot it anyway. The normal amount of orange peel should be able to be taken out with 600 or 800. I like at least 5 passes on the clear coat to prevent sanding through.

[Jacew]

Re: My Nitro Refin Progress Thread

Sand it down and re color coat. If it looks bad, it will likely still look bad with more clear.

+1

More paint only highlights the errors in previous layers. Should always do sanding before next if possible.

[ItsaBass]

Re: My Nitro Refin Progress Thread

There's nothing to lose but time if you try to wet sand now. Might as well see what happens. If nothing else, you learn something.

What lubricant are you using to wet sand, and how long is the paper sitting in the liquid before you start sanding? Are you using a block? I suggest mineral spirits (far better than water for several reasons), letting the paper soak for a day before using it, and using a block for all but the contours.

Orange peel should not be there to any large degree. Wet sanding levels the surface, but it has its limits. What you have there looks too extreme to fix with sanding.

Blush remover might help your situation...but it introduces a whole new skill set requirement that's, IMO, even more demanding than applying the lacquer to begin with. It isn't just a magic spray on cure for all lacquer problems. It requires a skilled hand to get the best out of it. And even then, you've got a flawed finish that has been salvaged, and it will probably show it to some degree, because blush eraser can only work with what's there. Lacquer is so easy to strip, that I personally would not attempt to recover from such a hairy situation by piling more stuff onto the project.

The problem with the guitar is happening during spraying. You aren't getting smooth coverage. It's something to do with your spray technique.

Just for reference, here is a high resolution image of a body after spraying with clear and drying, no sanding yet. This was done outdoors in Southern California, in hot, dry weather, totally hand held by myself – not an ideal situation by any means. But it's still smooth. Notice that there is no orange peel, and basically no texture at all. It's basically smooth. Wet sanding just totally flattens it to make it even better. It smooths out little pieces of dust, *slight* orange peel, slight pinholes, and the like. Wet sanding and blush eraser can do a lot, but they should not have to be used as a full-fledged rescue operation. Your coats should look somewhere in this neighborhood before sanding, if you want the best results and the easiest time of it.

Y

Here is the guitar a couple cans of clear later, wet sanding in between each one with stepped grades (400–800 between each can, and 400–2500 after the final can), and then buffed with compound (red) then polish (white). No grain filler was used on this guitar. It was just a green dye on the ash, then clear.

[Silence Kid]

Re: My Nitro Refin Progress Thread

Hmm. So you don't think adding more coats & getting more mass of clear will work out (perhaps with wet-sanding from here out?) I have two more cans of clear and nope, I was not to this point sanding between clear coats- everything I read so far said sanding between clears was not necessary, because the coats would burn into each other.

I did sand between each color coat, and before/after each sealer and primer coat- I flatted the final color coat with 600 grit before applying clear; it's a poor pic on the previous page but that was pretty smooth. I just didn't sand between clears. I also thought there was supposed to be a degree of orange peel to sand out from the clear (the reason to wet sand in the first place,) but guess I don't have an eye for that.

Is there a possibility I can use the blush remover to smooth out the orange peel? Why would I need to remove the color coats at this poin? Not to question your knowledge; I just thought I was actually doing relatively well enough, and wonder if starting all the way over isn't excessive.

...

EDIT: So wondering if I shouldn't try to at least flat it down at this point, and see if I don't sand through. If I do, then might as well continue & take it all the way down. If I don't, then perhaps add a few more coats of clear on top of that and let it cure- would there still be any reason to blow it all away if I could get it to that point?

[ItsaBass]

Re: My Nitro Refin Progress Thread

Sorry man. I don't mean to be a dick, but being an old G&L lover, I really want to see this thing done right. I've got to say that that thing needs to be stripped down and re-done IMO. Quite honestly, I've never seen a spray paint job that looks so nasty. It looks like you haven't been properly wet sanding between coats, because you should have nowhere near that much texture in the finish. That's the bigger problem than the blush.

It's no big deal; not everyone is going to be an expert spray painter their first go around. You have to learn on something, and nitro is an easy material to fix. Back to square one IMO. I hope you take this in the best possible way. It's not a personal attack; I am just being honest about the quality so the guitar gets what it deserves in the end.

I offered to help, since we are locals. That offer still stands. I can show you some spraying and sanding techniques that will help you get a much smoother surface than what you are getting there.

[Silence Kid]

Re: My Nitro Refin Progress Thread

As of this moment it looks a lot better- you can tell where the blush was because the paint surface is actually textured different (smoother/flatter/no orange-peel; an effect of escaping moisture?) but it isn't really hazy/milky at this point.

I'll use the blush remover when it arrives and try to put a bit of clear on top to see what happens/whether it blends or looks obvious. If it doesn't blend, I'll sand down more. Sounds like a scuff/sanding can also aid the blush escaping the finish?

[Lake Placid Blues]

Re: My Nitro Refin Progress Thread

Sand it down and re color coat. If it looks bad, it will likely still look bad with more clear.

[Silence Kid]

Re: My Nitro Refin Progress Thread

What the hell, here are some crap pics of the blush:

Half the spots disappeared as it turns out. One thing I notice is that the blushed areas are a lot more matte & smooth; I could almost mistake them for having been sanded flat rather than really being 'cloudy.' Sort of wonder what would happen if I just sprayed more clear on top to add back the gloss & re-flow things.

This one is almost gone- actually:



This one still looks ****ing nasty:

(Actually not quite this bad in person without the flash but- still.)

[Silence Kid]

Re: My Nitro Refin Progress Thread

May as well be candid and post my setback, which I keep telling myself is minor:

Very close to the final clear coats, and I get blush Rookie mistake- I waited for the temp. to get down to 75 in the later evening before spraying (per my usual) but neglected to realize the humidity today is also 75% . How is that even possible in SoCal on a clear, bright blue day? I did not even think to check, as it doesn't even feel humid and again- I'm not in Florida, ****ing god.

Anyway, somewhat lucky for my ego anyway- the front of the guitar is not affected. I was spraying the diagonal between the back of the guitar and the edge when it happened so there are two relatively minor spots on the upper treble-side edge of the guitar, one very minor spot on the back, and one freaking giant two inch thick streak on the back/edge above where your thigh would be. They all seem to be getting smaller- but after a couple hours, all are still visible. Anyway - Right now I just hope I die of old age soon, I'm so pissed at myself.

Then again, I have blush remover on order, and I understand this is not the end of the world. I hope? Initially only wanted to post the below happy pics...

...

One can clear, in the good old days with no blush:



Pre-Clear:



Primer:

[justFred]

Re: My Nitro Refin Progress Thread

Reranch Arctic white and niro clear coat....two weeks and final sand and polish

[Silence Kid]

Re: My Nitro Refin Progress Thread

I intended this thread go step-by-step, if I had problems along the way- but instead I'm making very good progress and pleased with the observable results so far. So instead of continuing updates I'll just pic-bomb the final resort once it's together, and not bump this thread further (except for real-time issues/questions I encounter.)

Speaking of Curious to hear from the expert finishers here: I understand it's two weeks minimum before final wet sand/polish and I might wait longer. But ideally when it comes to flatting out orange peel or overspray in the final clear coat, is there any good reason to wait two weeks before doing that?

Nice F-100! I like the natural mahogany!

Bill

Thanks! Again the grain didn't look bad, but I burned that bridge using the ReRanch grain filler for deep gouges the previous owner's tools made; opaque grey in those spots. Anyway the grain is now all covered & no regrets- Part of me is a stickler for 'factory' and part of me adapted to the idea of three black G&ls.

(...I somewhat doubt the quote about mahogany being rare/destroyed by G&L; if that was the case G&L apparently went through a reconciliation by the time my guitar was made ~3 years into production as one of the last F100s made before they went to the bi-cut neck. Seems a lot of solid color F100s are mahogany (transparent finishes being more ash/some mahogany.) I often hear F100s called over-bright, but mine rather has enormous bass; I think that's between: the body wood, the bridge pickup treble pot (vs. not in circuit earlier in production,) and (with doubt) the late-style allen-head pickups.

Grain filling is a step you can do several times. Once and done may not do it. I usually put some black analine dye or some ebony stain in the oil based grain fillers, especially if the finish will be transparent. Of course it doesn't matter either way with black.

I did wind up doing it a couple more times, after I noticed some grain sticking out still after my secondary coats of sealer. As mentioned above, I sort of didn't want to put dye in the grain filler, in case I chickened out and wanted to go transparent; no going back from ugly gray filler where a previous owner's screwdriver slipped

Glad to hear it is working out...the Aqua Coat worked perfectly...quicker, easier and better results than I was able to get with either Reranch or SteMac grain filler...primer coat came out without a sign of a grain...
Soldier on sir...respect your courage to go for the black...toughest of them all, me thinks...

Looks awesome Repeats of grain-fill did not turn out to be my favorite part of the process, and as far as I'm concerned the less time needed the better.