Replacement Nut For Charvel Model 5fx

[Charvel1975]

Got a couple of questions for the Charvel/Jackson guys on this forum. Looking for a nut to replace the Fender LSR roller nut I had a guy put on the guitar some years ago, I still don't know why I had him do this?? I think the nut is 1 5/8" and the original nut was a Black nut(kinda ungrooved) and then behind it has a Kahler-type top screw mounted locking piece where the strings run thru it and stock Jackson tuning keys.

I might also add that this guitar has an Original Floyd Rose tremolo and EMG-85 in the Bridge, I still have the EMG-81 non quick disconnect that came with guitar years ago, and a slant EMG single coil in the neck (I don't know if it is an S or SA)? The guitar has never stayed in tune right whether locked down or not and even after the strings have been broken in?! Any recommendations or tips?

[Gtrjunior]

Replacement Nut For Charvel Model 5fx

I’d have the nut shelf cut for a Floyd nut. Probably the only way it’s gonna work.
The behind the nut clamps Charvel was using with the Kahler system are flawed. The strings still bind in the nut.

[Chris Pile]

Re: Replacement Nut For Charvel Model 5fx

I’d have the nut shelf cut for a Floyd nut. Probably the only way it’s gonna work. The behind the nut clamps Charvel was using with the Kahler system are flawed. The strings still bind in the nut.

Now hold on! OP has left some info out - such as: Has the guitar ever had a complete setup and intonation done by a competent and experienced luthier? Did "the guy" leave the Kahler-type string lock behind the new Fender LSR?

GtrJunior claims the Kahler stringlock is flawed.... Have any proof? AND, if there is a lock at the nut (any nut) the chances of the string binding in the nut are very slim, because there is little string movement between the nut and lock. Frankly, "the guy" who installed the LSR nut should have removed the stringlock and suggested locking tuners to minimize the friction points in the vibrato system.

[Gtrjunior]

Replacement Nut For Charvel Model 5fx

Now hold on! OP has left some info out - such as: Has the guitar ever had a complete setup and intonation done by a competent and experienced luthier? Did "the guy" leave the Kahler-type string lock behind the new Fender LSR?

GtrJunior claims the Kahler stringlock is flawed.... Have any proof? AND, if there is a lock at the nut (any nut) the chances of the string binding in the nut are very slim, because there is little string movement between the nut and lock. Frankly, "the guy" who installed the LSR nut should have removed the stringlock and suggested locking tuners to minimize the friction points in the vibrato system.

The OP states that the guitar has a Kahler behind the nut lock installed and that it has never stayed in tune....
That’s proof enough for me.

I fully admit that you know way more about guitar luthiery and maintenance than me, but you seriously need to work on your people skills. And your reading skills.

[Mincer]

Re: Replacement Nut For Charvel Model 5fx

I always liked the LSR nut, both versions. What's wrong with it?

[ehdwuld]

Re: Replacement Nut For Charvel Model 5fx

I agree with goober
It probably had the LSR installed incorrect
Throws all that off

Cant see how it could bind in a LSR

[Gtrjunior]

Replacement Nut For Charvel Model 5fx

The op said that the guitar never stayed in tune even with the original black nut.
My comment about the Kahler lock system and string binding was more of a general comment in that particular system with a standard nut and not so much about the op’s roller nut system. I wasn’t clear on that so, my bad there.
A while back I was contemplating buying a Kramer Barretta Special and adding the Kahler lock (behind the nut). A large percentage of the research I did pointed to that system not being very reliable with tuning issues.
Plus there a good reason that nobody uses that system anymore....it’s not very good in comparison to what Floyd/Schaller etc offers. Jmo.

[Chris Pile]

Re: Replacement Nut For Charvel Model 5fx

Plus there a good reason that nobody uses that system anymore....it’s not very good in comparison to what Floyd/Schaller etc offers. Jmo.

AGAIN - do you have any proof to support your claim?

I can tell you EXACTLY why Floyds outsell Kahler stuff. Eddie used one, and the general public never even bothers to wonder if there is something different, let alone better.

[Gtrjunior]

Re: Replacement Nut For Charvel Model 5fx

AGAIN - do you have any proof to support your claim?

I can tell you EXACTLY why Floyds outsell Kahler stuff. Eddie used one, and the general public never even bothers to wonder if there is something different, let alone better.

When I was looking into this I consulted with the members of the Kramer forum. That’s their specialty. Kramer’s and the guitars of the 80’s that were their competition. They steered me away from that.
And again, had you thoroughly read my post, I ended it with JMO....AND I have nothing to prove to you. I can and will state my opinion whether you like it or not.

[Gtrjunior]

Replacement Nut For Charvel Model 5fx

AGAIN - do you have any proof to support your claim?

I can tell you EXACTLY why Floyds outsell Kahler stuff. Eddie used one, and the general public never even bothers to wonder if there is something different, let alone better.

You’re wrong...sure Eddie used one. But back then Kramer was the only maker liscenced to use them. That means all of the other makers had to come up with a different design, hence the Kahler system. Which Charvel used. At you saying that Charvel was such a “nothing” maker that the general guitar playing public had no idea they and the Kahler system existed?
The Kahler system isn’t made any more simply because it is an inferior system.

[Gtrjunior]

Re: Replacement Nut For Charvel Model 5fx

The simple fact that the Kahler system is no longer in production is proof enough that it is an inferior system to the Floyd. Inventions that work well and are accepted as a standard in the industry and by the buying public generally don’t end production of a profitable devise.
Do you disagree? Maybe you can prove to me why Kahler is better than Floyd’s system.

[Chris Pile]

Re: Replacement Nut For Charvel Model 5fx

MAN - where do I begin? Your grasp of history is loose because you weren't there - so you assume (poorly).

I already had a couple years under my belt at the bench before Floyds even existed. Floyd Rose sold trems to anyone before Kramer ever made a deal with them, and they kept selling them because money was to be made. Other makers didn't want to pay for them, and since it was cheaper to develop their own - they did. There were plenty - Schecter made a great locking system when it was all in Texas, I installed several for clients. Gibson jumped on the Kahler bandwagon early, having theirs branded as Gibson. I installed the first Kahler ever put on a Les Paul in the state of Kansas before Gibson offered it the next year. And finally - Kahler is STILL in production and selling to the public and guitar makers - not just flatmount trems, but other bridges and trem parts as well.... https://www.kahlerusa.com/

Now as to quality, I can tell you the Floyd is a poor design by a guy who made jewelry (yes, Floyd Rose was a jeweler). Initially - it didn't even have fine tuners, and the locking nut used to make the strings go sharp when tightened. They fixed that, I'll grant you. The mounting studs used to be wood screws, and they had some spectacular failures over the years. The inserts and machine screws work better, but aren't perfect. The bridge lacks adjustability for individual string heights, and their production parts have very sloppy tolerances. I know because I've measured plenty of times over the years. I even took 3 of them apart and measured (my industrial training was as a tool and die maker - a super machinist), so I know what I'm doing there. Their dimensions vary widely from published factory specs. Even the German made Schaller stuff varies in production quality from unit to unit. Don't even get me started on the licensed stuff. Ibanez makes the best Floyd style trem in my opinion, but most brands have their own various problems. Finally - mounting the locknut requires routing a shelf at the thinnest portion of the neck - making it even thinner. I can't tell you the number of necks I've had to repair that cracked or broke off at the shelf. As least most of them now offer the choice of mounting via 2 small wood screws from the top, instead of drilling and counterboring for allen screws from the rear of the neck. And, if you poll guitar repairman across the country - nearly all of them hate Floyds because of the difficulties of installing, setting up, and maintaining these systems. In a Guitar Player interview Eddie was asked how he likes Floyd Roses and his answer was, "I hate them, and I don't." So the guy who made them famous had his doubts, OK?

My recommendation to my clients who want Floyds? Use them if you insist, but use locking tuners and I'll make a nut that will stay in tune.


Kahlers have proven to have much better dimensional variances, and are far more adjustable for individual tastes of the client. They are also easier to install, setup and maintain. They last longer, don't require as much wood to be routed from the guitar, and perform better in my opinion.They LOOK better, but that's just my opinion. Floyd Rose the jeweler should look to them for his next inspiration. The main difference between a Floyd and a Kahler while playing is this: On the Floyd, the string is locked at both ends and when the bar is depressed, the string length remains absolutely the same. Only the string tension changes. On a Kahler - the string length increases and lowers in tension - it does sound different because the harmonics move on the string. They don't have to on the Floyd.

Back in the late 80's I wrote a series of articles about installing and setting up stock Fender whammies, Floyds and Kahlers for String Instrument Craftsman - which was published by Guitar Player magazine at the time. It eventually was sold to the Association of Stringed Instrument Artisans which published as Guitar Maker Magazine. It was intended for professionals, but many amateurs purchased it. In his first book about guitar repair, Dan Erlewine recommended it as required for any professional luthier who worked on or built electric guitars. That's a FACT. Kahler even used my article about maintaining Kahlers for their in-house customer service technicians.

Now then, you can think whatever the hell you want - but if you're smart, you'll look this stuff up and ask around about me. Back then I did business as Six String Fever under my real name - Chris Pile. At the luthier conventions I attended back East they used to refer to me as "that heavy metal guy" because I knew WTH I was talking about. Don't doubt me.

[Gtrjunior]

Re: Replacement Nut For Charvel Model 5fx

MAN - where do I begin? Your grasp of history is loose because you weren't there - so you assume (poorly).

I already had a couple years under my belt at the bench before Floyds even existed. Floyd Rose sold trems to anyone before Kramer ever made a deal with them, and they kept selling them because money was to be made. Other makers didn't want to pay for them, and since it was cheaper to develop their own - they did. There were plenty - Schecter made a great locking system when it was all in Texas, I installed several for clients. Gibson jumped on the Kahler bandwagon early, having theirs branded as Gibson. I installed the first Kahler ever put on a Les Paul in the state of Kansas before Gibson offered it the next year. And finally - Kahler is STILL in production and selling to the public and guitar makers - not just flatmount trems, but other bridges and trem parts as well.... https://www.kahlerusa.com/

Now as to quality, I can tell you the Floyd is a poor design by a guy who made jewelry (yes, Floyd Rose was a jeweler). Initially - it didn't even have fine tuners, and the locking nut used to make the strings go sharp when tightened. They fixed that, I'll grant you. The mounting studs used to be wood screws, and they had some spectacular failures over the years. The inserts and machine screws work better, but aren't perfect. The bridge lacks adjustability for individual string heights, and their production parts have very sloppy tolerances. I know because I've measured plenty of times over the years. I even took 3 of them apart and measured (my industrial training was as a tool and die maker - a super machinist), so I know what I'm doing there. Their dimensions vary widely from published factory specs. Even the German made Schaller stuff varies in production quality from unit to unit. Don't even get me started on the licensed stuff. Ibanez makes the best Floyd style trem in my opinion, but most brands have their own various problems. Finally - mounting the locknut requires routing a shelf at the thinnest portion of the neck - making it even thinner. I can't tell you the number of necks I've had to repair that cracked or broke off at the shelf. As least most of them now offer the choice of mounting via 2 small wood screws from the top, instead of drilling and counterboring for allen screws from the rear of the neck. And, if you poll guitar repairman across the country - nearly all of them hate Floyds because of the difficulties of installing, setting up, and maintaining these systems. In a Guitar Player interview Eddie was asked how he likes Floyd Roses and his answer was, "I hate them, and I don't." So the guy who made them famous had his doubts, OK?

My recommendation to my clients who want Floyds? Use them if you insist, but use locking tuners and I'll make a nut that will stay in tune.


Kahlers have proven to have much better dimensional variances, and are far more adjustable for individual tastes of the client. They are also easier to install, setup and maintain. They last longer, don't require as much wood to be routed from the guitar, and perform better in my opinion.They LOOK better, but that's just my opinion. Floyd Rose the jeweler should look to them for his next inspiration. The main difference between a Floyd and a Kahler while playing is this: On the Floyd, the string is locked at both ends and when the bar is depressed, the string length remains absolutely the same. Only the string tension changes. On a Kahler - the string length increases and lowers in tension - it does sound different because the harmonics move on the string. They don't have to on the Floyd.

Back in the late 80's I wrote a series of articles about installing and setting up stock Fender whammies, Floyds and Kahlers for String Instrument Craftsman - which was published by Guitar Player magazine at the time. It eventually was sold to the Association of Stringed Instrument Artisans which published as Guitar Maker Magazine. It was intended for professionals, but many amateurs purchased it. In his first book about guitar repair, Dan Erlewine recommended it as required for any professional luthier who worked on or built electric guitars. That's a FACT. Kahler even used my article about maintaining Kahlers for their in-house customer service technicians.

Now then, you can think whatever the hell you want - but if you're smart, you'll look this stuff up and ask around about me. Back then I did business as Six String Fever under my real name - Chris Pile. At the luthier conventions I attended back East they used to refer to me as "that heavy metal guy" because I knew WTH I was talking about. Don't doubt me.

I already said that you knew way more about this than I do....I never doubted that.
But, in your above post all you’ve offered is your experience and opinion with them. No hard proof.

No doubt that Floyd’s have issues and I agree with that and also that the Ibanez Edge is a far better unit.
But the fact remains that if the Kahler was/is as good as you say it is it would still be in production.
Yes, I know that Kahler the company still exists but the product we are discussing is not. (AFAIK) And if it is, and is it such a superior unit why then is not one current major builder using it?
I also agree that with a proper setup the unit can probably be made to work well enough. But it is still not a better invention that the Floyd even with all of its downsides.
We will have to agree to disagree here it seems.
You are welcome to install the Kahler in all of your trem guitars if you choose. I’ll take the Floyd, thank you.

[Chris Pile]

Re: Replacement Nut For Charvel Model 5fx

all you’ve offered is your experience and opinion with them.

40 plus years of experience and opinion IS proof, and you are too lazy or thickheaded to rise to my challenge of educating yourself by checking my references.
Remain ignorant in the mud, kid.

[Gtrjunior]

Re: Replacement Nut For Charvel Model 5fx

40 plus years of experience and opinion IS proof, and you are too lazy or thickheaded to rise to my challenge of educating yourself by checking my references.
Remain ignorant in the mud, kid.

I’ll do just that, irrelevant old man.