Push/Pulls in a Les Paul: independant coil split or universal split/phase

[oilpit]

One of the volume pots in my Les Paul crapped out the other day, marking the first time I have ever experienced an electronic component in a guitar fail, it was bound to happen eventually.

It's actually impressive they lasted as long as they did considering I've had the same guts in this guitar since I bought it used in like 2010, god knows how old they were by the time the guitar came into my possession.

Since the rest of the electronics are so old, and I've swapped the pickups probably a half dozen times, they're getting replaced as well (despite the fact that they honestly work just as well as the day I got them). So I hopped over to StewMac and filled up my cart and while I was doing so, I decided to go crazy and get a couple of push/pull pots for the tone knobs. I've never owned a guitar with any fancy switches before so I'm not sure how to wire them up.

Right now I'm deciding between:

a) independent coil splits for both pickups
b) master coilsplit/master phase inversion
c) a coil split for just the neck pickup and a phase inversion for just the bridge pickup

Anybody ever done this kinda thing in a Paul before? If so what did you find the most useful setup?

[AlexR]

Re: Push/Pulls in a Les Paul: independant coil split or universal split/phase

What do you mean by 'master phase inversion'? and what are you thinking this will accomplish??

[oilpit]

Re: Push/Pulls in a Les Paul: independant coil split or universal split/phase

What do you mean by 'master phase inversion'?

I mean a switch that will put the pickups out of phase with each other, like on a Jimmy Page wiring kit, or when you flip the magnet in your neck pickup.

and what are you thinking this will accomplish??

Well that's why I made the thread, I'm not sure if it's worth doing. It makes the middle position sound all quacky and funky, or it makes the middle position sound normal if you've got magnets flipped. I was really just asking if anybody had experience with push/pulls in Les Pauls and what the most useful utilization of 2 push/pulls will be. I'm sure you can find youtube clips if you're not familiar with that sound.

[PFDarkside]

Re: Push/Pulls in a Les Paul: independant coil split or universal split/phase

You mention only two controls, is it master volume?

I find the phase inversion works best with independent volumes, rolling one or the other off a touch brings back some bass and output and you get a ton of different tones by adjusting each volume. If you only have a master volume you’ll get a single thinner/more quiet tone. If that’s what you want then go for it.

On my Jimmy Page wired Les Paul, the alternative tones I use most are:
-Neck Split
-Neck Split / Bridge Split
-Neck Split/Bridge Split/Out of Phase/Series

Putting them is Series and out of phase gets a nasal cocked wah tone that’s pretty cool. I don’t think you can do that on a single pot though. Also, I hardly ever combine one full HB and one split HB, I usually split both. I’d probably try one pot to split both and one pot for out of phase.

[Demanic]

Re: Push/Pulls in a Les Paul: independant coil split or universal split/phase

Series/parallel for each pickup. Phase is ok but not quite as useful in my book.

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[Mincer]

Re: Push/Pulls in a Les Paul: independant coil split or universal split/phase

I think I might just do a master split for both pickups and a phase switch. Most people don't use a phase switch a lot, and a split for each pickup can get fiddly going from one sound to another.

[Aceman]

Re: Push/Pulls in a Les Paul: independant coil split or universal split/phase

Bah - go big or go home! Full Jimmy Page scheme!!!!

[dystrust]

Re: Push/Pulls in a Les Paul: independant coil split or universal split/phase

This one:



Thus far I haven't used the phase switch much, but I've yet to try PFDarkside's suggestion of rolling off one of the volumes slightly.

Of the non-standard LP sounds, the two I use most are both split and both split in series. I really like the clean tones of the latter with a touch of compression.

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Push/Pulls in a Les Paul: independant coil split or universal split/phase

Series/parallel for each pickup. Phase is ok but not quite as useful in my book.

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Brian May kinda likes the oop thing.

[Demanic]

Re: Push/Pulls in a Les Paul: independant coil split or universal split/phase

Yes, but it doesn't work so well for modern death metal.

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[NegativeEase]

Re: Push/Pulls in a Les Paul: independant coil split or universal split/phase

One of the volume pots in my Les Paul crapped out the other day, marking the first time I have ever experienced an electronic component in a guitar fail, it was bound to happen eventually.

It's actually impressive they lasted as long as they did considering I've had the same guts in this guitar since I bought it used in like 2010, god knows how old they were by the time the guitar came into my possession.

Since the rest of the electronics are so old, and I've swapped the pickups probably a half dozen times, they're getting replaced as well (despite the fact that they honestly work just as well as the day I got them). So I hopped over to StewMac and filled up my cart and while I was doing so, I decided to go crazy and get a couple of push/pull pots for the tone knobs. I've never owned a guitar with any fancy switches before so I'm not sure how to wire them up.

Right now I'm deciding between:

a) independent coil splits for both pickups
b) master coilsplit/master phase inversion
c) a coil split for just the neck pickup and a phase inversion for just the bridge pickup

Anybody ever done this kinda thing in a Paul before? If so what did you find the most useful setup?

Indeed, I regard it as essentially for a good workhorse recording guitar.

I can't tell you how many times somebody has struggled with a lead or hook tone on their standard LP style Humbucker setup where I've passed them my guitar and said pull these in and out and flip these switches until you find something..... and within a few minutes they are jazzed again by coil tapped/phasing and pickup combos together using those new tones.

[NegativeEase]

Re: Push/Pulls in a Les Paul: independant coil split or universal split/phase

Yes, but it doesn't work so well for modern death metal.

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A lot of the phase/tap/blend sounds will scoop the mids due to phasing and blending (especially bringing the neck pickup in with bridge) which for most Modern Metal will kind of "double scoop" their tone and make some sort of unusable tones -I'd agree.

also, muted passages, single note lines, ringing open arpeggios, open or running open chords and Barre/Power chords totally work with different pickup combos effectively,... so it's a lot to do with the passages which further supports my feeling in your statement.

[blueman335]

Re: Push/Pulls in a Les Paul: independant coil split or universal split/phase

For me, spin-a-split on neck HB's is far more useful than coil split. Coil split gives all or nothing: full HB or one coil, whereas spin-a-split gives those, in addition to all the great in-between tones. The neck tone pot becomes a 2nd volume pot, but for one coil only. As you roll that down, treble and clarity increases, & mids and volume decrease. That also gives you more tone options when the toggle is in the middle position. Why would anyone want coil split on a neck HB, when they can have spin-a-split instead?

On the bridge PU, I use the Kinman treble bleed to preserve high end at lower volumes. Unlike other treble bleeds, it doesn't change the sweep of the volume pot, or get too bright as the volume's dialed down. The cap & resistor cost $1. Spin-a-split is free as you're just moving wires around on an existing pot.

[Securb]

Re: Push/Pulls in a Les Paul: independant coil split or universal split/phase

I use phase a lot more than most but at the end of the day, I think coil splitting is more useful especially on the neck pickup. I like your option C, split on the neck with the phase. Keep in mind with phase rolling the volume pot gives you an entirely different tone. There is a huge variety of tone in there some people don't realize exists.

[Diego]

Re: Push/Pulls in a Les Paul: independant coil split or universal split/phase

Both humbuckers split, middle position in a LP is a very underrated, gorgeous clean sound, very un-Les Paulish.

In fact, it's the only way I use the coil splits in my LP. So I'd have that if I was you.