Intonation question

[75lespaul]

I just got a 1977 Gibson doubleneck off ebay. I got screwed, but that's another story.

I can't get the action low at all without the frets buzzing and dead frets on either neck, and even with the intonation set the same open and 12th fret, some of the frets in between are sharp! Especially the fourth fret B note on the G string. This is on both guitars with the twelve's being WAY sharp.

Could this be because of warped or corkscrewed necks? My eyesight is terrible and I can't tell. I'm going to bring it to be looked at if the seller doesn't take it back, but the shop usually keeps it about a month.

Any advise on what it could be that I may be able to fix myself? I'm usually really good setting guitars up but this one has beaten me. I haven't messed with the truss rods yet because these necks seem very delicate.

Thanks everyone,
Mario

[75lespaul]

Re: Intonation question

Thanks JohnJohn--

I got the guitar off of ebay so I never had a chance to play it. I never would have bought this for the price I paid if I had played it first. It was advertised as cherry, it's brown. Funny thing is it looked cherry in the photos!

Advertised as clean and well taken care of. It smells like mildew and had rust on the strings, the nuts, all the screws and inside the machine heads (hole where the strings go). That's just a couple of the many things I need to fix.

[dudeman08]

Re: Intonation question

i heard that a corkscrewed neck is disasterous, could mean lots of $$$ to repair, and could even result in buying a new guitar... Don't think that I'm trying to scare you, I'm not, its just that I am in sort of the same situation.. now if you had a cheap guitar like me, and you think the neck is corkscrewed, then its time for a new guitar because the repair would prolly cost more than the guitar itself. But from what it sounds like, your guitar sounds like a nice one. Maybe its worth the repair... as for me, i'm searching far and wide for a new axe...

[75lespaul]

Re: Intonation question

Yeah, I'm pretty scared about that. Thing is, I blew my wad on this guitar. If it needs new necks, it's firewood. I'll just play it like it is. I can deal with the high action but it's the intonation problem that's killing me. It's really the twelve that's the worst offender. Figures, right?

[75lespaul]

Re: Intonation question

I'll try to get some pics up soon. The seller refused to take it back so I guess I'm stuck with it. I had an Ibanez cherry doubleneck from 1981 thru 1992 when I sold it (along with my 1971 Barracuda convertible) to get money to buy my first house. Now THAT guitar was cherry in color as well as condition.

Get this--when I confronted the seller about the color his response was "It's a cherry finish on Walnut wood, did you think it was cherry wood? Haven't you seen the dark finishes on these guitars?"

I've bought quite a few guitars over the years off of ebay (and sold them) but I've never had one be so far away from the description that I'd want to quote mail fraud. This thing was $1750 w/shipping so I've got the dollars involved to make it worth their time I hope.

I've already reported it to ebay and some mediator company. Hopefully he takes it back, but if not I'll "get'er done". I didn't mean firewood like trash it--just an expression. I most definitely don't have that kind of cash to just dump it and get another! I really appreciate your concern and willingness to help.

[75lespaul]

Re: Intonation question

Hi JohnJohn--

Went to bed and missed your last question. I pulled all four pickups and just about everything you could unscrew. This guitar has definitely been walnut brown since its birth. The serial number is 72577035. The finish is very transparent and is actually in very good condition, besides the blems on the back of the guitar. Still, if you buy a cherry guitar that's what you want, not brown.

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Intonation question

If it's a seventies, does it have flat, wide frets? Maybe they can be leveled, but there's a possibility a refret, sanding the fretboard, and a crowning will cure the problem for a few extra hundred. As for the intonation...go beyond intonating just the open note and 12th fret. I like to get the 10th fret to the 19th fret as close to dead center as possible, on the tuner. This fine tunes it. Then, most of the notes from the 2nd fret to the 12th fall right where they should.

You probably learned from this purchase already, but I tend to shy away from
heavily used older guitars on Ebay. I love Ebay, but usually trust the 'nearly new' guitars a lot more than the potential 'problem guitars.' I learned from a few duds, myself. I hate those Ebay'ers that play stupid, especially when you can see that they have a lot of sales and obviously know gear.

[Robert S.]

Re: Intonation question

Seeing that you won't run a proper setup on the guitar yourself it's hard to determine anything about the neck, frets or anything else. If the neck isn't flat or nearly so with no backbow and/or you have the action down too far (can't tell from here without and OBE) you may experience spotty fretting out and other intonation problems.

Short of the color of the guitar you have have gotten a keeper for cheap that only needs a solid set-up. A 27 y/o guitar may need a little fret leveling but thats natural and should have probably been expected.

I'd hold off reaming the seller until you actually know what you have.

[Pandemonium]

Re: Intonation question

As usual, Robert's is the voice of reason. Don't jump to any conclusions before you let a qualified guitar tech take a look at it.

[75lespaul]

Re: Intonation question

Wow--I don't know if you guys read the whole description of the guitar or not, and not to sound offensive but $1750 sure isn't cheap. The guitar has some kind of rash all over the back like someone took a meat tenderizer to it. It smells like it's been sitting in a musty, damp basement for twenty years and everything that could rust, and even some things I thought couldn't, have rusted.

I'm pretty sure if you wanted a cherry guitar, and thought you bought a cherry guitar, you'd be pretty angry when you got it and found another color. I don't think I'm being too picky here. The guy tried to tell me it was walnut wood with cherry stain and that's why it looks brown. Would you then believe him when he claims it was taken great care of? I know you guys also know that cherry is more desirable and gets a better price and resale value than walnut. The guy just flat out lied. Probably after he saw the cherry look the camera gave his guitar, he embellished his listing.

Anyway, I've done more neck work and the guitar shop is looking at it tomorrow but I had a friend of mine look at it and it looks like the twelve string neck is either corkscrewed or warped. The six string is back to about 90% of what a Gibson should be and the twelve sounds acceptable through an amp but unamplifed sounds like a cardboard box. I've played Gibson doublenecks before and this guitar may not be able to match that quality anymore without major money being put into it. These guitars in today's market only go for around $1800 on the high end. I know because I've been looking for one for twelve years and I do lots of homework before I purchase anything. As I told the seller, on sight I wouldn't have given hime more than $1200 for this guitar.

I'll post again when I get it back from the shop but I don't expect that to be anytime less than a month. They are very good and very busy. At least I've got that on my side.

[That90'sGuy]

Re: Intonation question

If they usually go for 1800, why didn't you stick with buying one in person? If you don't save that much by going the eBay way, you never should have risked it.

Next valuable lesson, always find out whether or not the seller will accept Escrow. It's worth the extra cash to protect yourself. If I ever get something big online again, I will use that service.

That sucks that you're in this situation, but hopefully after reporting him (which I think you should do considering the guitar you're holding is radically different than described) he'll wise up and fork back over the cash. We all learn, just with different amounts of money and different items. I never received a $1600 laptop because of ignorance of dealing with a fraudulent seller without protecting myself. Good luck.

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Intonation question

What is the guy's Ebay user name? What's the link or auction number? Now, I'm
curious.

[75lespaul]

Re: Intonation question

Hi Guys--

Well, ebay was easy because it was just there and was kind of an impulse. I didn't want a new doubleneck and unless I took a trip into NYC, they are impossible to find "in person" where I am. Like I said before, I'm forty years old, have wanted a cherry doubleneck since I was fifteen and I just pulled the trigger on this one because of the year. I don't have time to scour the papers, want ad press, local pawn shops etc. looking for a guitar. In my previous post I should have said I've been "wanting" one for twelve years, not "looking" for one. Plus I wouldn't have had the $$$ anyway to buy it. I sold my Ibanez doubleneck to raise $$$ to buy my first house in 92.

The guy had also sold a $1300 guitar to someone else and got great feedback on that auction so I felt safe. Like I said, I don't bid unless I do homework first. I wasn't looking to save money, just get what I paid for. In the end, if the twelve string isn't corkscrewed and the shop can get the action right and the buzzing and dead frets fixed, then the outcome can be considered okay. I can replace the rusty screws, clean the nuts and maybe buff out the finish etc. and sell it (I'd be completely honest in my auction as always) to get the one I want.

Here's the link to the auction. It's item number 3716674886

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3716674886&category=38085&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWA%3AIT&rd=1

Hey, you know what? No matter whether I agree with you or not and vice-versa, the advice and comments you people are giving are ALL helpful and appreciated. Some of the technical advice actually made this guitar play lots better also.