Aliexpress Yngwie Malmsteen Strat / Scallops

[Aceman]

I have 7 les pauls/lp style guitars, running the gamut from a Gibson Les Paul Custom to a Chibson knock off. Obviously you get what you pay for, but the aliexpress guitars aren't nearly as bad as people like to pretend they are.

It should absolutely be illegal. The ethics of it are not in question period.

But also...The issue is did that money incorrectly go to Ali vs Gibson. That can't be believed. No one buys a $400 custom color Les Paul believing it was actually a Gibson, or that "but for that Chibson" Gibson would have made $400 more. They wouldn't. Not saying unsuspecting people don't end up with them....they do. And that is wrong.

However - a reasonable question is "How DOES it compare?" 20 years ago? Crap - no question. 10 years - getting better.... Today: One HAS to ask. How does it compare to the real thing. While most Gibsons have decent or better fretwork, as I always say, for $3k I expect to have to put it under a microscope to find a problem, and we know that isn't the case.

Ask the Auto industry how that model works. Japanese cars, and more recently, Korean were crap. Now there are NO 100% US cars. they ALL have an average of $12k of foreign parts in them. Toyota, Honda, Nissan and Hundai RULE. As will the Alicaster one day.

Quality talks, BS walks, price is king, the market will speak. Ignore it at your peril.

[superpete]

It should absolutely be illegal. The ethics of it are not in question period.

However - a reasonable question is "How DOES it compare?" 20 years ago? Crap - no question. 10 years - getting better.... Today: One HAS to ask. How does it compare to the real thing. While most Gibsons have decent or better fretwork, as I always say, for $3k I expect to have to put it under a microscope to find a problem, and we know that isn't the case.

Ask the Auto industry how that model works. Japanese cars, and more recently, Korean were crap. Now there are NO 100% US cars. they ALL have an average of $12k of foreign parts in them. Toyota, Honda, Nissan and Hundai RULE. As will the Alicaster one day.

i'm not here to debate the ethics of it at all. i think that side of the equation is pretty cut and dry.

but as far as workmanship, they're fine. when i got mine, i a/b'ed it stock against an epiphone LPC. I thought the epi sounded better, but the chibson felt better. So i swapped the pickups and the chibson was better. but to be fair i've changed the pickups in 3 of my 4 gibbys, and in my fgn and orville les paul too. i don't think a gibson is a fair comparison, but it was in line with most epi offerings for sure

you played the yngwie, like you said, it was no USA fender...but if you were told it was a squier yngwie, would you believe it? genuinely curious.

[Aceman]

That's a separate argument I see. "It's illegal so it's crap". NOT the same thing.

The place where those things start to cross over is when the quality is equal or better. At that point, you have a legitimate business problem. And saying it is illegal is not a universal truth - it's a point of view that is highly focused on your own borders.

I personally have no ethical problem purchasing one of them. If I did - it wasn't any money I was sending to Fender/Gibson. They missed nothing, and I would never sell it as a real Fender/Gibson. Might even mark it as such.

But I am purely asking / talking about the quality it is. A Squire* Yngwie....at least. Need to get a hold of real one. Or better yet, have Dave play them, because he can!


* Just for you Brandon.

[Little Pigbacon]

I love the different ways people try to rationalize support of counterfeiting.

[Aceman]

I love the different ways people try to rationalize support of counterfeiting.

As I love the ways people try to rationalize being lazy, riding off an idea forever, and believing that you owe them exorbitant amounts of money just because they had an idea once....

Again - no rationalizing of counterfeiting. But are we going to try to say a "sound" is IP? If Ali-buckers rock, they rock. At some point they ARE as good as Duncans, and maybe even better. And when that happens, they will brand them as such, and Duncan, DiMarzio and the rest will either have to step up to the plate and figure out how to produce the same or better quality at an equal or lesser price - or die. And China gets closer and closer every day.

Someday Ali may own both companies, and provide all Chinese parts, resulting in higher quality, lower prices, and less of a need for workers. Ask GM how that works.....

[Little Pigbacon]

Back on topic, I think the name on headstock of a guitar should not be an outright lie.

[superpete]

i don't think anyone here said otherwise.

[Mincer]

I don't think it is the case of the copies ever getting better than what they copy. Especially since the #1 priority is cheap materials and cheap labor. You 'top out' quality fairly early if that is your only concern. Companies aren't willing to pay for better materials, so all they have is design with inferior materials. They are copying the designs from another company, right down to logos and trade dress. It really isn't 'free market' until the copycat company can build something of their own.

[ehdwuld]

The Chinese Grote guitars are nice for the money
about on par with Epiphone
Got some unique offerings as well

[Aceman]

Back on topic, I think the name on headstock of a guitar should not be an outright lie.

Actually, the topic is Scalloped fingerer boards.

[Obsessive Compulsive]

I don't think it is the case of the copies ever getting better than what they copy. Especially since the #1 priority is cheap materials and cheap labor. You 'top out' quality fairly early if that is your only concern. Companies aren't willing to pay for better materials, so all they have is design with inferior materials. They are copying the designs from another company, right down to logos and trade dress. It really isn't 'free market' until the copycat company can build something of their own.

Isn't it peculiar that in the guitar world, if the company making the copy is from China, you call it 'copycat'; but if it's American like Suhr or Tom Anderson: 'Oh they make their own version of Strats that are far above Fender in terms of craftsmanship, sound, playabiilty." And guess what? People pay 3 large for those 'better Strats' or about twice the original.

[Little Pigbacon]

There are $3,000 Chinese Strat copies?

[Lovegun]

I wonder if the main markets for these counterfeits are non western worlds? In the western world we have laws against these counterfeits and strict customs laws. Sure we can buy them, but I think it is not very profitable for them for the afore mentioned reasons. I think in asia there are easier markets for them to make more money.

Why are these counterfeits getting better? I think it is, because they make them in some factories where they make legal instruments and then the "night" shift makes these counterfeits. It is easy just to program the machines to exact specs and place the wood in the machine. Making them like this requires so little work by hand.

[ErikH]

Isn't it peculiar that in the guitar world, if the company making the copy is from China, you call it 'copycat'; but if it's American like Suhr or Tom Anderson: 'Oh they make their own version of Strats that are far above Fender in terms of craftsmanship, sound, playabiilty." And guess what? People pay 3 large for those 'better Strats' or about twice the original.

You miss the details. The Chinese copies are copies down to the headstock shape AND logo. They say "Gibson" on the headstock. That's a no no. The Suhr and Anderson Strats and Teles have unique headstock shapes to their brands and have "Suhr" or "Anderson" on the headstock. The reason the Chinese companies, and even those in Europe or anywhere else outside the U.S. border, can get away with making these exact copies is because the copyright laws of the headstock shape and likeness do not apply in those countries. It's very hard for U.S. makes to enforce there.

[Ascension]

Being I worked for so many years in Pawn Shops IMO every one of those guitars need to be confiscated and burned. those who import them marked as USA built Fender, Gibson and PRS guitars need to be put under the jail and every site that sells them removed from the internet. Easy way to fix this is enforce the law! have no issue with the guitars existing as a brand of their own but out right forgeries like that do huge amounts of damage in many ways. Talk to the corporate folks at Duncan on what the headaches are from the out right fraudulent forgery of Seymour Duncan products most coming from China.
This kind of stuff is SO rampant across such a wide range of items it's CRAZY!! It's the bane of existence for Pawn Shops as you see any thing from fake Rolex Watches to these to fake high end rifle scopes to almost anything you can name on a daily basis.
It needs to ALL be stopped cold and those involved put in PRISON!