Les Paul with headstock repair value?

[ICTGoober]

Paul Dean of Loverboy was the first guy I ever heard mention that his guitars sounded better after the neck was broken and repaired. So when Hondo (yes, Hondo) put out a Paul Dean Signature model, the neck was made in 3 pieces and glued together again with small voids routed under the fingerboard to replicate losing little pieces of wood during the repair.

[NegativeEase]

A repaired guitar (especially a broken headstock repair) is often BETTER than original. So unless we are talking a collectible, I see no reason for ding the price on a used guitar. If you want to be a jerk - 10% discount, but not 50. That's just stupid.

Interesting, I figured the price was at least 30-40% lowered -but I've never sold one.

As an actual pro, in the classic Gibby breakpoint -do you dowel the headstock or just glue? I've done both -depending on the the thickness of the neck. I've never seen one rebreak.

[nexion218]

Not being a luthier, I always wondered if the snapping off of a headstock turns up more on the tiltback Gibson design than any other. If it does, I wonder why that design hadn't been changes or reinforced (not just adding more wood) since this started happening. As someone who doesn't repair guitars, I only hear about Gibson's heads snapping off. Is it a design flaw? Or are people just less careful with a more substantial guitar?

Because "heritage" and "traditions", that's why... On a serious note, I'd say it's a design thing. If I recall well, the headstock is tilted 17 degrees, they insist on making the neck and headstock from one piece (so no scarf joint like for example Jacksons) and refuse to carve a volute (like for example ESP). Together with the truss rod's channel routed out, only some minimal wood is left under the nut area of the guitar,. Tasked with handling the tension of the strings, the thin layer of wood gives in easier. I believe Epiphones have a 14 degree angle and that alone makes a big difference.

[Mincer]

So a more severe angle made out of 1 piece of wood is more fragile from a design standpoint?

[ICTGoober]

As an actual pro, in the classic Gibby breakpoint - do you dowel the headstock or just glue? I've done both -depending on the the thickness of the neck

The repair depends on severity of the break. I've never used dowels, but I used to install splines in the really bad ones. However, thanks to discussions with other pros on the Official Luthiers Forum I've given them up. They are a lot of work, adding time and expense to the repair - while adding very little provable strength to the repair. I had planned to use splines on that Peavey bass, but thought I would try it without and see. If it broke again, I could always reglue and insert splines. I didn't have to, it held beautifully. Made my turnaround time very short, as the longest part of the repair was touching up the finish. I did veneer the face of the peghead to cover the break and make it look nice. The client liked it and didn't mind that the Peavey decal was gone.

Unless the client wants the repair hidden, I also stopped using color during the touch-up so the actual repair could be seen. I was influenced by the thoughts of antique auto restorers who realized a car is only original once (so stop making them look better than new), and kustom car builders who stopped painting sheet metal work to show off their skills. In my case - the repair is not hidden, so there is no question. You can see what I did, and judge for yourself.

Here's a 335 I did a couple years ago. The break was bad, and the finish touchup to the repair was very noticeable - but the client was super happy.

https://imgur.com/AotqQMZ

https://imgur.com/y26PO9V

[nexion218]

So a more severe angle made out of 1 piece of wood is more fragile from a design standpoint?

Yes, that is my understanding. It makes the part bearing the most tension the thinnest piece of wood.

[ICTGoober]

The shorter the piece of material, the stiffer. This is why a bolt-on neck is so strong, and peghead affixed using a scarf joint is so strong.

[Mincer]

It seems like a re-design is warranted. But I am guessing that doesn't happen, because 'tradition'.

[NegativeEase]

Unless the client wants the repair hidden, I also stopped using color during the touch-up so the actual repair could be seen. I was influenced by the thoughts of antique auto restorers who realized a car is only original once (so stop making them look better than new), and kustom car builders who stopped painting sheet metal work to show off their skills. In my case - the repair is not hidden, so there is no question. You can see what I did, and judge for yourself.

Here's a 335 I did a couple years ago. The break was bad, and the finish touchup to the repair was very noticeable - but the client was super happy.

Thanks, nice repair! I've never considered not trying to match and hide it before -those are good thoughts.

I think I've done about 4 or 5 over the years -mostly for broke friends.

[ICTGoober]

It seems like a re-design is warranted. But I am guessing that doesn't happen, because 'tradition'.

I'd be interested to hear what you have in mind.
Basically - it's a stick with strings.

[Aceman]

Well I guess I’m a luthier.

You are Lex Luthier

[Aceman]

I am not a luthier - but have played a couple broke neck Les Pauls in my time.

My understanding:

Broken headstock is tough, broken neck is easy
Diagonal break is better (more glue/surface) than a straight break
And as with all wood work done right - the break will end up stronger than surrounding wood

As for Price - I'm thinking that is based on
- Value of the guitar without
- Nature of the break (headstock vs neck)
- Quality (or a appearance of quality) of the repair

And yeah - 10% - 20% off what it would be seems reasonable.

I'd really want to play first....

[Aceman]

Paul Dean of Loverboy was the first guy I ever heard mention that his guitars sounded better after the neck was broken and repaired. So when Hondo (yes, Hondo) put out a Paul Dean Signature model, the neck was made in 3 pieces and glued together again with small voids routed under the fingerboard to replicate losing little pieces of wood during the repair.

This sounds like self justification. 3 necks in a blind listening would likely prove this pure BS.

[Mincer]

I'd be interested to hear what you have in mind.
Basically - it's a stick with strings.

I wish I was an engineer sometimes. This is the kind of problem I'd solve.

[ehdwuld]

I like the way Ibanez does it with long strips going the leanth of the neck