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Ugh, Floating Trem

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  • #16
    I went through this debate myself recently. My decision was to set the floyd to down only, and I chose to use a floyd rose trem stop. This is a simple bracket in the rear cavity with a bolt pushing against the block. Nice, simple and reversible (save for two screw holes for the bracket).

    For me, the loss of ability to pull up on the floyd, and the loss of the feel of a floating trem was lesser than gaining simpler tuning, not worrying about being heavy handed and string bends behaving more like on a fixed bridge. Also, down only was good enough for Eddie!

    In the band, most of the playing is inevitably rhythm, and whilst I of course do leads, having a floating floyd is less important against the benefits. That said I fully appreciate if I work on things and adopt new habits I can of course learn to work with a floating floyd - in which case I'll remove the bolt/adjust springs and off I go. I am happy with how things currently are though. Floating does allow some nice stuff so I won't rule it out in future.

    Sent from my H8314 using Tapatalk

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    • #17
      If anyone can't handle a Floyd maybe he/ she shouldn't use it at all. The real advantage of a floating trem is the ability to pull the bar up and do all tricks only possible with it. Otherwise just use a regular Strat tremolo.

      I have a number of guitars with original Floyd and its derivatives and never have any tuning issue and so on.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Little Pigbacon View Post
        If you like the stuff you can do with it, keep it that way. Do you really want all your guitars set up to do all the same things? What would be the point of having multiples? I like a free-floating trem, but not on all my guitars. I like a decked trem, but not on all my guitars. I like a wraparound LP Special bridge, but not on all my guitars. Etc, etc.
        This right here. I can say with confidence that all my guitars are quite different.


        Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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        • #19

          Thanks everyone! Going to follow up on a few comments here.

          Originally posted by JamesPaul View Post

          I am a 38 year floating Kahler cam tremolo user. Last year I got a Fender LE HM Strat with a Floyd - my first Floyd. The Floyd is so much freer floating, it was a struggle just fine tuning it. I truly wanted this HM Strat and it does a much better "Cricket" than my Kahlers, so I was determined to keep it and work at making peace with the Floyd.

          I am still not 100% with the Floyd, but I am much better than last year. I find the Floyd is requiring a much lighter touch while playing than I am used to with my Kahlers or a Fender trem.

          My goal with the Floyd does not include alternate tunings or blocking it. More springs will make a Floyd feel more solid, but I already have that with my Kahlers. Again, I am focusing on adapting to the Floyd.

          Best of luck pursuing your goal(s) for your Floyd.
          You mention a lighter touch on the Floyd. Do you mean on the tremolo bar, or on the guitar itself? I'm finding both to be the case - the trem is more sensitive, sure, but also the guitar begs for a light touch even on .10s. I'm not used to playing a guitar that doesn't like getting a little thwacked. Could the bridge be absorbing the string vibration, moreso than a decked Strat bridge would? No need to answer, just pondering.

          Originally posted by Little Pigbacon View Post
          If you like the stuff you can do with it, keep it that way. Do you really want all your guitars set up to do all the same things? What would be the point of having multiples? I like a free-floating trem, but not on all my guitars. I like a decked trem, but not on all my guitars. I like a wraparound LP Special bridge, but not on all my guitars. Etc, etc.
          That's the thing, I'm not thrilled with the Dimebag squeals and cricket tricks, and I've never had a desire to do the Jeff Beck thing. I do get your sentiment though - there's no point in having many guitars that all do the same thing, so maybe I'll grow into it. What kinds of stuff do you do with your floating trems?

          Originally posted by Obsessive Compulsive View Post
          If anyone can't handle a Floyd maybe he/ she shouldn't use it at all. The real advantage of a floating trem is the ability to pull the bar up and do all tricks only possible with it. Otherwise just use a regular Strat tremolo.

          I have a number of guitars with original Floyd and its derivatives and never have any tuning issue and so on.
          Curious about the tricks. The grumpy me says "look, even when masters of the guitar do floating trem tricks, it doesn't sound that great. It sounds different, but who cares?" But then the optimistic me says "it opens doors for creativity, give it a shot!"

          Originally posted by nexion218 View Post
          It's also worth mentioning that in certain cases adding more springs can be counterproductive (due to Hooke's law I think, but don't quote me on that and may give rise to tuning problems. That is because adding more springs may make the bridge feel stiffer and keep the bridge floating, but the springs themselves will be less stretched, thus storing less energy and after diving it will not return to zero, but rather a tad bit flat. A slap on the bar to make it flutter returns everything to zero in that case, but not a desirable situation. I would go for stronger springs ( I've had success with the red ones from FR, but FU-Tones and many other make similar products). Those will feel stiffer too but will be considerably more stretched when set up, thus storing more energy to pull the bridge back to zero.

          The gadget I reviewed in the thread I linked in my previous post aids the springs in doing their work: it pushes and pulls on the block at the same time thus maintaining the zero position. As an added bonus, strings wont go immediately flat when you bend one and supposedly a drop tuning on the fly is possible too. I'd try something similar, because it helps negate some of the drawbacks of the Floyd while letting it be a Floyd. You only sacrifice the flutters. I think if you have it is worth learning to use it. Now that you have why prevent it from doing what it was designed to do?
          Thanks for linking the thread! This is one of the ones I was remembering. I'll give 'er a good read. Is there a way to measure tension of springs? Or if you want high tension springs, do you just search for "high tension springs" and hope that they're higher tension than the ones you already have?
          Originally posted by crusty philtrum
          Anyone who *sings* at me through their teeth deserves to have a bus drive through their face
          http://www.youtube.com/alexiansounds

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          • #20
            Originally posted by alex1fly View Post
            Thanks everyone! Going to follow up on a few comments here.



            You mention a lighter touch on the Floyd. Do you mean on the tremolo bar, or on the guitar itself? I'm finding both to be the case - the trem is more sensitive, sure, but also the guitar begs for a light touch even on .10s. I'm not used to playing a guitar that doesn't like getting a little thwacked. Could the bridge be absorbing the string vibration, moreso than a decked Strat bridge would? No need to answer, just pondering.



            ...
            I have 9's on mine.

            The first thing I discovered was just fine tuning it. I would push the Floyd sharp. I had never experienced this with my Kahlers.

            You are correct on playing technique. I really have to ease up on my picking as the Floyd can get a tiny warble/flutter if I "thwack" the strings. Palm muting can be challenging at times as well. It definitely needs a lighter touch than my Kahlers or fixed bridge guitars.

            As for using the bar, it does not require anywhere near the force of my Kahlers. I have to be gentle with the Floyd bar, but it still delivers up or down.

            It is just different and will likely do a lot to improve my playing technique if I stick with it. Maybe I will get to where I can play like this on all my guitars, then just turn up the aggressiveness when needed. Similar to how I should have kept the Evolution in my mutt Lead II for a while. But at the time that Evo brought every mistake I made through at almost the same level as what I was playing. I blamed the Evo, but in retrospect it could have done a lot to improve my technique. Sometimes I am slow, but I am still learning.

            I miss the 80's (girls) !!!

            Seymour Duncans currently in use - In Les Pauls: Custom(b)/Jazz(n), Distortion(b)/Jazz(n), '59(b)/'59(n) w/A4 mag, P-Rails(b)/P-Rails(n); In a Bullet S-3: P-Rails(b)/stock/Vintage Stack Tele(n); In a Dot: Seth Lover(b)/Seth Lover(n); In a Del Mar: Mag Mic; In a Lead II: Custom Shop Fender X-1(b)

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            • #21
              Originally posted by alex1fly
              That's the thing, I'm not thrilled with the Dimebag squeals and cricket tricks, and I've never had a desire to do the Jeff Beck thing. I do get your sentiment though - there's no point in having many guitars that all do the same thing, so maybe I'll grow into it. What kinds of stuff do you do with your floating trems?
              In addition to flutters, which I love, I like to articulate notes with the trem, going up or down at will and crossing zero like it aint no thing. I also like to pull bar chords up.


              Nobody knows, dude. Nobody knows.

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              • #22
                Rick Rozz from Death's Leprosy ....or stuff like this (@ 3:30)...That's what I need a Floyd for

                "Less is less, more is more...how can less be more?" ~Yngwie J Malmsteen

                I did it my way ~ Frank Sinatra

                Originally posted by Rodney Gene
                If you let your tone speak for itself you'll find alot less people join the conversation.


                Youtube

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                • #23
                  I love watching Rick Rozz work the bar on that Ultimate Revenge 2.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by alex1fly View Post
                    Or is it worthwhile, long-term, to leave it as is and give myself the chance to develop a style on it? I love so much about this instrument and selling it is not in the playbook.
                    I tried the Tremol-no and it's not worth it.

                    This is what you want - https://reverb.com/item/26985931-tre...4e9u9xg_BrhiFY

                    You will gain stability, but lose the ability to flutter. You also can't switch tunings on the fly unless you tighten so much it's basically a hard stop.

                    I'll look around and see if I have something at the house and catch up with you next week.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by devastone View Post

                      I tried the Tremol-no and it's not worth it.

                      This is what you want - https://reverb.com/item/26985931-tre...4e9u9xg_BrhiFY

                      You will gain stability, but lose the ability to flutter. You also can't switch tunings on the fly unless you tighten so much it's basically a hard stop.

                      I'll look around and see if I have something at the house and catch up with you next week.
                      Thanks for linking the part. Good to know about this kind of thing!


                      Originally posted by Mr Wolf View Post
                      I went through this debate myself recently. My decision was to set the floyd to down only, and I chose to use a floyd rose trem stop. This is a simple bracket in the rear cavity with a bolt pushing against the block. Nice, simple and reversible (save for two screw holes for the bracket).

                      For me, the loss of ability to pull up on the floyd, and the loss of the feel of a floating trem was lesser than gaining simpler tuning, not worrying about being heavy handed and string bends behaving more like on a fixed bridge. Also, down only was good enough for Eddie!

                      In the band, most of the playing is inevitably rhythm, and whilst I of course do leads, having a floating floyd is less important against the benefits. That said I fully appreciate if I work on things and adopt new habits I can of course learn to work with a floating floyd - in which case I'll remove the bolt/adjust springs and off I go. I am happy with how things currently are though. Floating does allow some nice stuff so I won't rule it out in future.

                      Sent from my H8314 using Tapatalk
                      I may do this as well. Nice thing is that it's reversible, just two screw holes in the cavity.

                      Originally posted by crusty philtrum
                      Anyone who *sings* at me through their teeth deserves to have a bus drive through their face
                      http://www.youtube.com/alexiansounds

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        The WD Tremolo Stabilizer works well too, it is a pain to set up, but once it's set it works. You lose flutter, but it's stable.

                        I have one of those, a Rockinger Black Box, and a Tone Vise like I linked to. The Black Box and the Tone Vise (or whatever it's called now) work the same. Let me know if you want to try one.

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