Poly vs. nitro??

[papersoul]

Re: Poly vs. nitro??

[QUOTE=Lewguitar][QUOTE=papersoul]Lew,

Does that mean that a Nitro finished guitar can give of poisonous fumes??

Lacquer thinner is toxic as heck and that's why conventianal lacquers aren't used by any of the big companies any longer. It's like sniffing glue and harmful to your brain cells and nervous system. It's worst when it's being sprayed and when the finish is still wet. After the finish is dry to touch, it still takes months and months to get as hard as going to get...during that time the finish is still out-gassing, but only someone with chemical sensitivity problems would probably be affected. There are alot of people like that tho...people who get a headache or get sick from a new finish or new car smell.

Well, my LP was received about two months ago and it had arrived two months prior to that in the store.

[papersoul]

Re: Poly vs. nitro??

i think prs switched for better clarity - a little of both worlds kinda approach

i prefer neither on necks and thats why all my necks are hand rubbed oil finsihed

Where do you getthat type of neck? The only thing I found was the Peavey Wolfgang.

[mrfjones]

Re: Poly vs. nitro??

Where do you getthat type of neck? The only thing I found was the Peavey Wolfgang.

he makes the neck himself.

On the guitar that blueline is making for me i am having a nitro finish applied, not because i think it will really affect the tone at all but because it is very vintage correct to a 1952/53 telecaster. He is putting many thin layers of nitro on the guitar to make the best possible finish for the guitar. I also wanted nitro because the nitro finishes seem to be thinner. I have one guitar now that is finished in nitro and all the rest are poly, i prefer the feel of the nitro covered neck as apposed to the poly finishes. I can feel the wood under teh finish better, it is that much thinner than the poly finishes. It really feels less like plastic to me. I have however rubbed mot of the poly off the neck of my tele and it feels great, but it took a lot of playing and rubbing to do that.

[Blueline]

Re: Poly vs. nitro??

Papersoul - I am a custom guitar builder, and on the guitars I build I finish the bodies in poly or nitro but i hand rub all the necks with 6-10 VERY VERY thin layers of tru-oil (its a little more complicated than just "rubbing") but it provides an amzingly fast playing surface that doesn't gum up when you're hands are sweaty from a 3 hr gig.

feel free to PM me

[Bludave]

Re: Poly vs. nitro??

[QUOTE=Lewguitar][QUOTE=papersoul]Lew,

Does that mean that a Nitro finished guitar can give of poisonous fumes??

Lacquer thinner is toxic as heck and that's why conventianal lacquers aren't used by any of the big companies any longer. It's like sniffing glue and harmful to your brain cells and nervous system. It's worst when it's being sprayed and when the finish is still wet. After the finish is dry to touch, it still takes months and months to get as hard as going to get...during that time the finish is still out-gassing, but only someone with chemical sensitivity problems would probably be affected. There are alot of people like that tho...people who get a headache or get sick from a new finish or new car smell.

The primary reason why Nitro is not used any longer by major builders is due the EPA regulations. All Companies must have proper ventalation, and hazardous waste removal in place and it needs to be proved in the event a inspection is requested by the state in where the guitars are being made. Violations of state EPA laws can be very expensive. The MSDS (material saftey data sheets) on Nitro reads very bad, and only small builders are using this today. Unfortunatley IMO it offers the best finish of all the materials being used.

[Blueline]

Re: Poly vs. nitro??

i know sometimes its even illegal to ship nitro via the mail because its so dangerous and explosive
but i might be wrong - i haven't had a prob

[casblah]

Re: Poly vs. nitro??

Nitrocellulose certainly smells nice, IMO.

[Fresh_Start]

Re: Poly vs. nitro??

Does anybody think that Taylor acoustics sound bad? They are finished with a UV cured polyester finish that is as thin as can be. IMHO the thickness of the finish is most important in terms of tone.

Nitro is poisonous and explosive - what a great combination!!! That's why I use it

Chip

[butnut]

Re: Poly vs. nitro??

hehe, well this topic certainly made the rounds over the Reranch forum eh Chip? Yup, lacquer (acrylic & nitro) both need the evil thinner to be sprayed. My usual mix is 1-1/2 parts thinner to 1 part lacquer. That's a lot of thinner, and most of it evaporates into the air as it dries. Although I take precautions, I now suffer chest paints from just the smell of lacquer thinner or even rattle cans, always have to wear a respirator around any paint products. Nitro is a very old finish product...it yellows with age, cracks (checking) is'nt very durable...but it has the mystique of tone...true, some very old Fenders have killer tone, but the nitro and wood have become dried, thin, worn as well as the electronics, some sound great, but not all old Fenders are gems...some will be dogs too. How much does a nitro finish affect tone? On an electric, there are a lot of variables, type of wood, neck, pickups, pots, type of strings. I do agree on acoustics, there will be more of a tone difference, but will nitro 'sound' better? Again, I have heard from owners who have poly and nitro guitars and some like the poly's tone better...but is it the finish? Just too many things to consider.
Now 2 same guitars, both finished with the same mil (thickness) of poly and nitro...so both will be 'freshly' finished. Body from the same piece of wood (neck also) pups wound by the same person to exactly same specs, assembled by the same person, same strings, same amp and settings. Blind test...which sounds 'better'? Which is poly...which is nitro? Will there be any difference? Will nitro always be picked as the better tone? I don't think anyone has tested this out, and I doubt anyone can do a 'perfect' test...so it comes down to what you like, or think you like, or what your ears and hands tell you. My nitro Equire sounds killer, but so does my poly Tele, I love the satin poly finish on my Jimmy Vaughan necks waaay better than my nitro finished Esquire neck. I'm using nitro only because it relics well. Poly is my favored finish because it builds and cures fast, killer depth and gloss. Is it 'better' than nitro? Hmmmm...

[kmcguitars]

Re: Poly vs. nitro??

I use Nitro Cuz' I feel it's a more Exclusive. Nothing wrong with a good
poly fininsh but it's very common. Tonaly ,I coundn't tell them apart.
I've seen some real nice and shiny Poly Finishes,But for me I've never
been able to get Pro results with poly ?? I find nitro easier to work
with ,And I get Pro results w/t it. Nitro IS EVIL STUFF Even in a well
ventalated area with a mask on I find myself coughing and weezing after
spraying.

[MattPete]

Re: Poly vs. nitro??

I tried finishing a guitar last spring using nitro. I would spray outside and bring it inside to dry (no bugs or dust to get on it). When spraying outside, I found I had to hold my breath the entire time the stuff was so foul. When I brought it inside to dry, I'd have to turn on the AC or go for short run because the fumes would get to me (it was hanging about 10 feet behind me in the same room as my computer). Truly nasty stuff.

[papersoul]

Re: Poly vs. nitro??

If only small companies use Nitro, how does Gibson do it?

[butnut]

Re: Poly vs. nitro??

If only small companies use Nitro, how does Gibson do it?

My guess is they have a very large, expensive filtration booth. Multiple filters that are probably changed often. I think Cali is one of the only states with strict policies about what goes into the air, absolutely no lacquer sprayed there and all HVLP guns. Any paint being sprayed...especially nitro, should be done with a proper respirator...also, the mask must be fitted well, cover the 'exhaust' vent with your plam and breathe out...if air escapes from above the nose, choke the upper strap, by the chin, choke the lower...if you even smell a hint of lacquer or poly (worse) your mask is not fitting right and you will suck fumes. There should be absolutely NO smell coming in your mask, change cartridges frequently too...you're only given one set of lungs...mines is giving me signals that my years of painting is catching up with me...my younger years of thinking my nose hairs were filters is just hitting me...be careful with paint.