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  • HELP! Tube ?'s

    I need to replace my power tubes in my head. Right now I have Groove 6L6's, and would like to replace them with the same thing. Problem is I went to research some replacements and ended up coming out with more questions than answers.

    1. What is the Groove "Hardness scale"?
    2. Should I replace the preamp tubes at the same time ( I'm thinking yes)
    3. What's better Russian, Chinese or ? tubes.
    4. Whats the difference between 12AX7 Chinese and Russian preamp tubes.
    5. Who has the best price.

    Thanks in advance guys.

  • #2
    Re: HELP! Tube ?'s

    1. i dont know
    2. yes, but not neccessary
    3. it depends on the amp and what sound u want. some prefer chinese, others russian
    4. sound really, both have good quality, good tone, the sound is the main difference, many say chinese are more gainy, harsher, compared to russian, but it depends on the brand, and on the amp
    5. look around on the net. a few guys on the forumn sell tubes, or have siblings or friends who do, and they can get u the best prices
    Godin SDXT - 59-ClassicStack-JB
    Martin D-15 - Fishman Neo-D
    Boss BD-2 - MXR dynacomp - Dunlop Crybaby GCB-95 - Morley A/B/Y
    Crate VC-3112
    Brownsville NY J-Bass Copy
    Fender Bassman 60

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    • #3
      Re: HELP! Tube ?'s

      Originally posted by Dirtyking
      I need to replace my power tubes in my head. Right now I have Groove 6L6's, and would like to replace them with the same thing. Problem is I went to research some replacements and ended up coming out with more questions than answers.

      1. What is the Groove "Hardness scale"?
      2. Should I replace the preamp tubes at the same time ( I'm thinking yes)
      3. What's better Russian, Chinese or ? tubes.
      4. Whats the difference between 12AX7 Chinese and Russian preamp tubes.
      5. Who has the best price.

      Thanks in advance guys.
      i think the hardness scale refers to when their tested, the results are put together to get a #, like 1-10 or something, and each group of #'s is good for a specific thing, like 8-10 is good for blues or bass, but i'm not sure, check thier website, it has to be there somewhere.

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      • #4
        Re: HELP! Tube ?'s

        1. http://www.groovetubes.com/tubes.cfm
        2. If you feel like it, or want a better/different tone
        3. It depends on what amp you're talking about
        4. tooling, plate size, gain properties, tone
        5. www.revolutionguitar.com or www.srs-webstore.com

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        • #5
          Re: HELP! Tube ?'s

          "music heals"
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          • #6
            Re: HELP! Tube ?'s

            I tend to prefer tubes made in Eastern Europe, like Czechoslovakia. They seem to have a grasp on how to make good tubes. I don't have a lot of confidence in Russian tubes (Sovteks, E.H.). And I didn't care for the Chinese-made stuff either. But I'm no tube expert, I'm just telling you my experiences with those types of tubes.

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            • #7
              Re: HELP! Tube ?'s

              1. 1-10=soft to hard; 4-6 are fairly safe middle ratings, but see if you can read what's on your old tubes for reference
              2. not if you don't need to, IMO, unless there's something about your tone or gain structure you're not happy with
              3. It's kinda like restaurants -everyone has a specialty. I think there are decent tubes from every country - even some of the Chinese tubes, like certain 12AX7's
              4. Well, they're probably patterned after different classic tubes. Of the current Russian tubes, I'd say the Sovtek LPS and the EH are the most popular
              5. depends on the tube - see my previous link for some recommended vendors

              if you have some idea of the tone you're after, you might try asking Myles Rose for some specific recommendations over on the
              Expert Forums
              "music heals"
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              • #8
                Re: HELP! Tube ?'s

                For power tubes, especially 6L6's, take a look at www.eurotubes.com

                Bob there just hooked me up with JJ 6L6GC's for my mesa 50cal and i tell you what, these things sound great! Having said that, also the Svetlana 6L6's that were in there to begin with sounded fantastic too, but the JJ's really sound terrific and they wont break the bank.

                If you drop Bob a line he'll help you out, but he WILL recommend JJ's because thats all he stocks

                But they are great!
                My Soundclick page.

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                • #9
                  Re: HELP! Tube ?'s

                  Originally posted by casblah
                  I tend to prefer tubes made in Eastern Europe, like Czechoslovakia. They seem to have a grasp on how to make good tubes. I don't have a lot of confidence in Russian tubes (Sovteks, E.H.). And I didn't care for the Chinese-made stuff either. But I'm no tube expert, I'm just telling you my experiences with those types of tubes.
                  czechoslovakia is no longer a country

                  the place where i buy my tubes is at www.dougstubes.com

                  great guy, nice selection, good prices

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                  • #10
                    Re: HELP! Tube ?'s

                    Originally posted by Dirtyking
                    I need to replace my power tubes in my head. Right now I have Groove 6L6's, and would like to replace them with the same thing. Problem is I went to research some replacements and ended up coming out with more questions than answers.

                    1. What is the Groove "Hardness scale"?
                    2. Should I replace the preamp tubes at the same time ( I'm thinking yes)
                    3. What's better Russian, Chinese or ? tubes.
                    4. Whats the difference between 12AX7 Chinese and Russian preamp tubes.
                    5. Who has the best price.

                    Thanks in advance guys.
                    If you want to replce your GT 6L6's with the same thing, just look for a number written in pen on the base of the tube. This is the 1-10 "hardness scale" - replace your tubes with the same number.

                    It's a good idea to replace the preamp tubes at the same time you replace power tubes - but not always necessary. You should always replace the phase inverter tube when replacing power tubes. This will ensure that your power tubes are performing efficiently. I've been impressed with a matched Groove Tubes Mullard 12ax7M available directly from groove tubes web site.

                    As far as tube manufacturers, the performance is truly subjective. I happen to prefer the 9th generation Shouguang Chinees tubes in my Randall RM4 preamp and VHT power amp.

                    Good prices (not sure if they are the "best" prices) can be found at www.revolutionguitar.com and www.thetubestore.com
                    (2) Randall RM4 preamps, VHT 2502 Power amp, 2 2x12 Bogner cabs w/V30's and Lead 80's, '74 Gibson Les Paul Goldtop, '89 Gibson Les Paul Cherryburst, '93 Stratocaster, and a bunch of other stuff.

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                    • #11
                      Re: HELP! Tube ?'s

                      Thank you everyone for the help. My current 6L6's are Groove 6-8's. I'll be replacing them with the same thing. I'M torn on the preamp tubes. What I have is russian 12ax7's, but I'm really curious of the chinese 12ax7's. They say they are a little fatter sounding with a little more gain.

                      Mrid, isn't the chinese 12ax7 what you use now? And did't you compare it to the new Mullard? What's your final verdict.

                      Hawkman, Whats your final take on these 2 preamp tubes. If it helps I'm retubing a Randall RG100T head. The best thing about this head is it's open bite and headroom. I'm not a fan of mass compression, so would the chinese preamp tube be a good idea. And thanks for the advise on replacing the inverter tube. My local tech suggested that too.

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                      • #12
                        Re: HELP! Tube ?'s

                        Originally posted by Young Angus
                        For power tubes, especially 6L6's, take a look at www.eurotubes.com

                        Bob there just hooked me up with JJ 6L6GC's for my mesa 50cal and i tell you what, these things sound great! Having said that, also the Svetlana 6L6's that were in there to begin with sounded fantastic too, but the JJ's really sound terrific and they wont break the bank.

                        If you drop Bob a line he'll help you out, but he WILL recommend JJ's because thats all he stocks

                        But they are great!
                        OMG! a quad set of 6L6's for $59. How do these compare with the Groove tubes?

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                        • #13
                          Re: HELP! Tube ?'s

                          FWIW, here's a comment from Aiken Amps tech pages regarding replacing the phase inverter:

                          Q: Do I need to replace my driver tube every time I replace my power tubes?
                          A: No. This is an "old wive's tale" propagated by the tube vendors who want to sell you more tubes. The "driver" tube, or phase inverter as it is more appropriately known, is under no more stress than any of the other preamp tubes. The output stage of a normal guitar amplifier is AC-coupled, class AB1 or class A1. The "1" suffix indicates that the tubes do not draw grid current during any portion of the input cycle. A "2" suffix indicates grid current during some portion of the cycle, as in class AB2. Since almost all guitar amps are class AB1 or A1 (it takes a DC-coupled cathode-follower or interstage transformer to be able to drive the power tubes into the positive grid region), the phase inverter does not have to supply any current to the grids (it can't really source current anyway - it only sinks current through the plate load resistor, which is quite large, and inherently limits the plate current to a few mA). The AC coupling (capacitor coupling) between the phase inverter and the output tubes precludes any flow of grid current anyway. The output tube grids will merely act as a grid clamp, shifting the bias downward as the output is driven harder. This in no way stresses the phase inverter tube. In addition, the plate load resistors and the bias current in a typical phase inverter are identical to the preamp stage values, indicating that they are operating in the same area, dissipation-wise, so they cannot be "wearing out" any faster. In fact, the reverb driver tube on a typical amplifier is dissipating more power than the phase inverter, and should be replaced more often, if anything. Don't be misled by the higher plate voltage on the phase inverter either, because the cathode is usually sitting somewhere around 30V - 100V above ground, which lowers the plate-to-cathode voltage by that amount. The plate-to-cathode voltage is what determines the power dissipation of the tube, not the absolute plate voltage.
                          "music heals"
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                          • #14
                            Re: HELP! Tube ?'s

                            Originally posted by Curly
                            That site had more info than I could handle. I think I need to take a nap now. Thanks, I think

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                            • #15
                              Re: HELP! Tube ?'s

                              yes, that's what happens when you ask a simple question
                              "music heals"
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