amp/effects problems + misc questions

[Closed Eye]

1.
Okay, I know putting things (pedals, etc.,) between your guitar and your amp affects the tone, but I thought in some cases (i.e. not using a whole bunch of pedals) the change is negliable, sometimes barely noticable...and I didn't start noticing it until recently...
Whenever I plug my guitar straight into the amp it sounds great. really, really, really great. It's full, loud, and has the right amount of distortion.
However, as soon as I soon as I start plugging in effects the single gets crudier and crudier and crudier. I only use about four or five of them, (Delay-Flange-Phase-Whammy-Wah) so it's not that much, and although I am looking for a new amp I don't want to abandon this one (a Marshall MG250DFX) simply because it won't work with my effects pedals. It's reliable and sounds good at bedroom volumes, which makes it great since I mostly play in the room...
Do you guys have any tips/suggestions as to how get rid of this gradual signal disintigration when I use my amp with my effects?

2.
Do you guys have any experience with or opinions on the Carvin Legacy?
I play Tool, Incubus, The White Stripes, and classic rock (Zep, AC/DC, Sabbath) type stuff so I'm looking for a Marshall esque kind of amp that's not a Marshall. Or at the very least very good equivolent with slight differences. A nice moderate to high gain amplifier with good cleans that's good to start shaping a sound around.
I was considering the Legacy because of the price and the reviews I've read, but I'm not quite sure being that I've never tried one out.
Although, if you have any better suggestions for an amp like the one I describe please feel free to talk about that rather than the Legacy.

3.
Who would win in a fight, Lemmy or God?

[BobbyEarl]

Re: amp/effects problems + misc questions

Hey Bro
1. Not trying to be a s/a, but define crudier and crudier....like: loss of volume, highs, noise etc..
From past experience if you want Marshall (tube) sound, save for a Marshall..oh you can get close with others but you'll always have that "if I would have just saved up 300 or so more bucks I'd have it" thing.
2. I do have a close friend who has a Legacy, and it's a nice amp, but the cleans (which you said you wanted to build on) lack punch and seem to be kind of colorless IMHO. The high gain sounds are nice and thick.
Also the Carvin web site probably still has some sound samples you can listen to. I feel they have a good product...but I wouldn't trade my 1987 for it.
3. Lemmy's cool, but God is in control.
Peace

[Closed Eye]

Re: amp/effects problems + misc questions

Hey Bro
1. Not trying to be a s/a, but define crudier and crudier....like: loss of volume, highs, noise etc..
From past experience if you want Marshall (tube) sound, save for a Marshall..oh you can get close with others but you'll always have that "if I would have just saved up 300 or so more bucks I'd have it" thing.
2. I do have a close friend who has a Legacy, and it's a nice amp, but the cleans (which you said you wanted to build on) lack punch and seem to be kind of colorless IMHO. The high gain sounds are nice and thick.
Also the Carvin web site probably still has some sound samples you can listen to. I feel they have a good product...but I wouldn't trade my 1987 for it.
3. Lemmy's cool, but God is in control.
Peace

1. by "crudier and crudier" I mean that the tone of the amp is literally sucked out. When I play it with just the guitar into the amp the sound is full, rich, and loud.
When I start plugging the effects in it's like somebody suddenly put a blanket over the speakers. The volume level drops, the distortion has that "tunnel sound", the bass frequences get accented, and it just sounds really, really bad.
The thing I liked about the 250DFX when I played it was that it didn't sound like a lot of other solidstate amps I'd played, there's just something "cool" about how it sounds when compared the other ones. But when I plug in the pedals it sounds just like those other amps. Crudier, and crudier, and crudier...

2. Yeah, I did some more research on the Legacy, seems a little more like an acquired taste, and if that thing you mentioned about the cleans is true I probably won't be picking it up.

3. Good answer. I also would've accepted "Lemmy is God" (first person to tell me where that's from gets my respect and admiration)

[Robert S.]

Re: amp/effects problems + misc questions

Pedals that are not true bypass buffer your signal and can eat your tone. One is bad enough but 4 or 5 can really take a toll on your rig and tone. Also, if you are using low quality cables to wire it all together they can alter your tone as well. Most of the expensive pedals are either true bypass or attempt to minimize the effects of buffering, inexpensive pedals can cost you tone.

If you like the sound of the amp plugged in direct, you amp is not to blame. It's either the pedals, the connecting cables or a combination of both.

[RCM78]

Re: amp/effects problems + misc questions

Air Heads

[some_dude]

Re: amp/effects problems + misc questions

(Delay-Flange-Phase-Whammy-Wah)

What brand/model?

Also, what brand/model of cable are you using?

[tone4days]

Re: amp/effects problems + misc questions

i hate to bring up what may seem an obvious point, but are the batteries up to strength in the effects ? ...or are you using a power supply? .. if you arent powering them fully, they can suck tone in a hurry

otherwise, robert is absolutely right ... unbuffered effects and/or lower quality cables can really suck tone and the effect seems to be multiplicative in a chain like yours ....

do you have an effects loop in that amp? if so, you might want to try it .. plug the guitar straight in then put the effects in the loop (maybe keep the wah wah out of the loop)

let us know if this helps
cheers
t4d

[Closed Eye]

Re: amp/effects problems + misc questions

I considered using the effects loop...I'll tell you how that works out...

What brand/model?

Also, what brand/model of cable are you using?

Pedals:
Boss DD-3 - > Small Stone Phase Shifter (Russian) -> CF7 Flange/Chorus - > Digitech Whammy (Reissue) - > Crybaby Wah

Sometimes I use a Tremelo too, one of those Danalectro mini's...

Cables: Monster

I use a power supply for the Whammy and Delay, generally the other aforementioned pedals don't need one, but I'm always certain to be using new batteries on the one's that don't have a power supply.


EDIT: it was the FX Loop! The amp sounds GREAT again!

I ran it like this (minus Tremelo, Phaser)
FX loop -DD-3 - > CF7 -> Whammy - FX loop

amp - wah - guitar

I'm always at a loss on where to put the Tremelo, any suggestions?

[tone4days]

Re: amp/effects problems + misc questions

it was the FX Loop! The amp sounds GREAT again!

...

I'm always at a loss on where to put the Tremelo, any suggestions?

in a drawer?

just kiddin'! .. i am sure you can put it anywhere in the loop and be ok, i doubt you run them all at once anyway, right? ..

glad it helped - rock on
cheers
t4d

[Bludave]

Re: amp/effects problems + misc questions

Pedals that are not true bypass buffer your signal and can eat your tone. One is bad enough but 4 or 5 can really take a toll on your rig and tone. Also, if you are using low quality cables to wire it all together they can alter your tone as well. Most of the expensive pedals are either true bypass or attempt to minimize the effects of buffering, inexpensive pedals can cost you tone.

If you like the sound of the amp plugged in direct, you amp is not to blame. It's either the pedals, the connecting cables or a combination of both.

ABsolutley right on. If you want youcan have all of your pedals setup as true bypass. It should not run to much. I would recommend wiring your prdals with GeorgeL cables. They are absolutely silent!!!

[Kent S.]

Re: amp/effects problems + misc questions

Generally if you are using good buffered pedals such as BOSS then it's the cables that get ya. The other thing is if you can use the FX loop for everything you listed except the wah, and run that straight into the amp. You need to use the FX loop as that gets your guitar to the preamp first, thus protecting your tone as much as possible. That and your Wah is probably not a true bypass, and may not be one of buffered ones. Anyway GOOD cables and as short as possible, the dan electro pedal you can throw in the trash as far as I'm concerned. Use the loop. You may have to experiment with placement of the whammy pedal though (I always thought they had a horrid tone to them myself), for harmony stuff I'd definitely run it after the distortion (loop).