What makes an overdrive "amp-like"?

[Nacho8807]

I've seen a lot of companies use the term "amp-like" to describe the tones their overdrive and distortion pedals can achieve. But what does that really mean? More importantly, what does that mean to YOU? What makes a tone you get from a pedal amp-like? Is that really a selling point for you when you're browsing pedals? And what are some examples of pedals that give you good amp like tones? Just looking for opinions and general thoughts here, no hard answers.

[VanDerchuck]

Re: What makes an overdrive "amp-like"?

To me: all overdrives and distortion pedals sound like a box a turds at low volumes. I like them when the amp, always tube, is turned up to the point of distortion. I want an OD pedal that adds some touch of color to the amp itself. Nothing more than that. I built my amp and I know how I want it to sound. I don't want a major change from that sound. Just a touch. I use different pedals depending on my mood but the amp is always inspiring.

[jon the art guy]

Re: What makes an overdrive "amp-like"?

Your original OD and Distortion pedals were essentially a stripped down gain stage with a rudimentary tone control sometimes. One or two small devices to make low voltage high, and some sort of diode to clip the signal's edges off. As pedals gained popularity (lol gain), people started adding multiple gain stages into a single pedal, started using more sophisticated clipping methods and designs, and started adding robust tone controls that started mimicking the amps they were in front of.

Those multiple gain stages in, say, a chip, allowed for the stages to push a little gentler and make for a more satisfyingly clear tone, instead of a one-and-done tone shred. Soon pedal guys developed the means to take transistors and chips (essentially a bunch of transistors in a tiny size, stuck in a single chip) and imitate a pseudo-tube/valve reaction with very gentle clipping.

After a tube-like rich distortion was able to be achieved, people started adding the tonestacks of major amp makers to the gain stages and essentially made amp-in-a-box pedals. The tonestack of an amp is largely how one amp sounds different than another.

Speaker output can pretty much be derived as an EQ section, and a fixed EQ can be pretty easy to make. Add an EQ tuned to, say, the same EQ checkmarks as a Celestion V30, and you have yourself a distortion pedal that largely reacts the same as the amp it's based on. Depending on who you ask.

But I think the basic answer to "amp-like" stompbox quality is the ability of the pedal to do multiple gentle gain stages and a gentler asymmetrical clipping.

ah, suggestions?

well, the Zendrive, Timmy, OCD, Xotic Effects boosters, and the old Klon are all very "amplike" without being too much like an amp in a box. Some of the best amp in a boxes come out of Catalinbread IMO, like the Dirty Little Secret and Formula 5f6. They've even got the RAH (Jimmy Page's rig at the Royal ALbert Hall show), Galileo (a combo of Queenesque pedals for Brian May's Day at the Races sound), and they even incorporated a tubey goodness in their Echorec and Belle Epoch delay pedals.

Wampler makes some excellent high-gain amp in a box, as does Lovepedal. JHS also does, but I have personal problems with them. They've swiped several pedal designs and sold them as personally developed.

Well...they all have really. If it isn't a tube screamer, it's a knock-off.

[chadd]

Re: What makes an overdrive "amp-like"?

To me it means that as you turn your guitar volume down, the pedal cleans up. Not just the same sound at less volume. At full volume the sound is responsive and covers the full EQ spectrum.

[Gearjoneser]

Re: What makes an overdrive "amp-like"?

To me it means that as you turn your guitar volume down, the pedal cleans up. Not just the same sound at less volume. At full volume the sound is responsive and covers the full EQ spectrum.

A major factor in an "non amp-like" pedal is the presence of that fake layer of buzz mixed in with the clean signal. It's something that Tubescreamers are known for, although that is their sound.
It's like a papery feel added to your tone that doesn't sound bold like an overdriven tube amp.

This is why a lot of players don't like Tubescreamers, and favor more linear boost pedals that sound more natural. After the TS and Rat, the Boss OD-1 came out with a more amp-like sound, and then it blossomed from there. Now, most pedal builders can create an OD that is less thin and buzzy, and more full while adding gain.

I prefer cranked amps with mild OD's that just punch the amp a little. But for an amp-like experience straight into a clean amp, I find the Bogner blue and red XTC pedals to do it better than just about anything I've heard. Even loud, they sound natural and have a surprisingly low noise floor. Those pedals are worth every penny.

[MetalManiac]

Re: What makes an overdrive "amp-like"?

Everone has some great points. If you've ever played a old tweed amp, with a tube recitfier, you'll note that it has that truly organic sag.This sag kind of gives a very 'punchy' and touch sensitive direct response and feel to the amp as if the guitar was part of the amp- a 'feel' as much as a tone. Some pedals quash that dynamic, and others allow that responsiveness to shine through. Hard to get any of that with a very high gain tight amp though.

[youngthrasher9]

Re: What makes an overdrive "amp-like"?

This thread is full of win. Nothing but intelligent responses in the posts before mine.

[ken361]

Re: What makes an overdrive "amp-like"?

Bogners are best amp like pedals. Wamplers sounds just like a pedal, thats why I was always turned off by pedals till the Bogners came along

[Aceman]

Re: What makes an overdrive "amp-like"?

To me....

A bit of sag in the drive/note.
A chaos factor to the breakup.
Not buzz, but a continuum of increasing breakup.
Responsiveness to volume changes/playing dynamics.

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: What makes an overdrive "amp-like"?

What makes an overdrive "amp-like"?

Global negative feedback in the circuit.

[Nacho8807]

Re: What makes an overdrive "amp-like"?

Killer responses guys. And a really good read too. I had a pretty good idea, but I wanted to know if it meant the same thing to everyone. Pretty cool.

[Lewguitar]

Re: What makes an overdrive "amp-like"?

I've seen a lot of companies use the term "amp-like" to describe the tones their overdrive and distortion pedals can achieve. But what does that really mean? More importantly, what does that mean to YOU?

To me?

Less square wave fuzz. Less buzz. Less density. Less saturation.

More transparency and more of a sense of spaciousness and breath and more of an open quality to the tone.

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: What makes an overdrive "amp-like"?

I'd have to go along with the sentiment of the pedal reacting to changes in picking dynamics and guitar volume changes as defining "amp-like" to me.

By comparison, the rack gear I've used over the years was designed to do one or the other (clean or unclean), and largely ignored input dynamics, or at least had a reduced reaction to it.

With the Digitech GSP21 Legend, you set up a dirty patch and it was always the same level of dirt. Your volume knob merely controlled how loud the incoming signal was, and did not matter to the unit's level of dirt all that much.

The ADA MP-1 has a bit more responsiveness to volume control, but punching the strings sets off the Input Clip indicator, which the circuitry attempts to limit, so you can't really push the gain stages that way.

The Digitech 1101 seems to handle it a bit better, but because I'm using patches that typically have a "pedal" in front of an "amp", there's a reduced functionality. In patches where I have only the amp without a pedal, it does react better to knob tweaks - back it down for rhythm, full-on for leads or main riffs. However, most still need that kick in the front from a pedal.

In patches where it's all dirt "pedal" into clean "amp", the "pedal" doesn't always react the same to volume knob changes. Not sure how realistic that aspect of the modeling is, as I don't have most of the real pedals they claim to model.

From what I've been able to do with my JCM800 and a few pedals (OD-1, Rat2, MetalZone, and Line6 M13), they do all react to volume knob changes to a degree, but since their core design is so physically different from the amp, there's going to be considerable difference in their reactivity. After all, they were designed to produce a specific and intentional effect and nothing else, whereas the amp got it largely as a secondary consideration or "add-on" to the base design.

[Chickenwings]

Re: What makes an overdrive "amp-like"?

"amp like" = it doesn't suck

[Jolly_Rancher]

Re: What makes an overdrive "amp-like"?

I've heard techs talk about odd and even harmonic distortion. If I remember correctly, tubes generally give more even harmonic distortion, while SS components give more odd harmonic distortion... or maybe it's the other way around. But, it seems like in the past 10 or 20 years circuit designers have figured out how to get the tube harmonic distortion out of SS components.

I'd like to hear from you in the know about this...