banner

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Anyone else have to use TWO noisegates?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Anyone else have to use TWO noisegates?

    I have the Peavey 6505+ head, which I love, the lead channel is insane and perfect for the style we play, think ADTR, Chunk No Captain Chunk, Devil Wears Prada, Bring Me The Horizon, etc etc you get the idea.

    However its REALLY noisy on the lead channel, I have the ISP Decimator G string which is in the FX loop to stop this, dial the knob in at about 11 o'clock and it seems to do the trick.

    Another problem is I run an Ibanez Tubescreamer TS9 in front of the amp to give it a bit more of a kick, which is the reputable tried and tested setup for these modern metalcore type bands. The TS9 is noisy as well and causes unwanted squealing when doing the chuggy stop starty riffs.

    The drive is on zero and the level is about 12 noon, turn it up any higher and it'll start making noise.

    So I inserted a Boss NS-2 after the TS9 and in front of the amp. Seems to cut it out but I think it sucks tone. Never thought I'd have to use TWO noise gates in my setup! Before I owned a Marshall JCM2000 and didn't need to use anything.

    I did read Misha Mansoor uses THREE noisegates in his setup, which is pretty crazy!

    I've seen rig rundowns of The Devil Wears Prada and Matt Tuck from Bullet For My Valentine, both use NS-2's and ISP's in both the FX loop and in front of the amp.

    So would this set up of 2 noisegates seem to solve the issue? And I will suffer tone loss inevitably.

    Shall I keep the NS-2 before the amp or get another ISP (the first one) and run that between the TS9 and amp?
    Last edited by DeadandBuried; 03-24-2014, 12:03 PM.

  • #2
    Re: Anyone else have to use TWO noisegates?

    lotsa people use two noise gates exactly like you're doing, one in front to tame the noise from pedals, and another in the loop to tame noise from the preamp.

    If you don't like the NS-2's slight dampening of the signal, get another ISP. There are several ways to use the NS-2 though, and I found that the most effective is like so:

    guitar -> input
    send -> pedals
    pedals -> return
    output -> amp

    it does introduce a slight dampening effect on the highs but I don't mind too much.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Anyone else have to use TWO noisegates?

      Misha and all the ilk use it more so for the staccato attack/stop and go/Djent thing they do so much. Clamping down on hum type noise is more than likely a side effect of why they use it. It's near impossible to get a tight sound without a noise gate. (Well that kind of tight sound)

      You aren't gonna get much noise in Axefx being goosed with a TS clone pedal.
      Last edited by grumptruck; 03-24-2014, 02:26 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Anyone else have to use TWO noisegates?

        decimator gstring2 was built for two noisegate pedals, check out their instruction manual. as said, periphery does this with 2 noisegates; I bet using the TS digital pedal in axefx would reduce noise even more

        other sources of noise include the guitar / pickup wiring, and the electricity not being processed by furman and ???
        FOLLOW ME ON FACEBOOK https://www.facebook.com/ronmusician

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Anyone else have to use TWO noisegates?

          After typing my spill...

          I dont get why they don't... Unless its endorsements kind of thing. Those guys are huge on being gear whores.

          axefx is supposedly have damn good effects replication.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Anyone else have to use TWO noisegates?

            Yeah its important for break downs and stuff that after the chugged note its a clean silence.

            The NS-2 dampens clean channels as well I've read, and I don't want that, not that I use LOADS of cleans but I switch regularly via the footswitch to a crunchy sound for dynamics.

            I could just get another ISP then? Not the G-string version though but the normal one for the front end of the amp? This shouldn't affect my tone too much?

            And will it affect channel changes?

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Anyone else have to use TWO noisegates?

              If you're facing the amp, that's where the squealy stuff comes from when you stop. It's not going away except at low volumes. If it does it with your back to the amp, and you're not on stage, turn it down a bit.

              Also realize that what you're hearing on the CD has been doubled and layered and post-processed to hell and back. One guitar and one amp will not be enough.

              For live settings, more volume generally means you can use less gain than for the CD, since you're sending shockwaves into the crowd. As well, there's still the layering effect, particularly when two guitarists and the bassist are all hitting the same note at the same time. Then there's the wondrous assortment of live signal processing gear that gets you that studio/CD tone on stage once it goes through the FOH console. Harmonizers and the like are not just for doing the Steve Vai stuff.
              Originally posted by Brown Note
              I'm soooooo jealous about the WR-1. It's the perfect guitar; fantastic to play, balances well even when seated and *great* reach for the upper frets. The sound is bright tight and very articulate. In summary it could only be more awesome if it had b00bs and was on fire!
              My Blog

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Anyone else have to use TWO noisegates?

                I don't have a problem with feedback coming from the guitar, I can control that no matter where I'm standing, and I certainly don't perform facing my amp!

                The problem is the Ibanez tube-screamer making noise when kicked on. The pre-gain on the amp is 5. The extra gain and boost comes from the TS9.

                However the Gstring Decimator can't do BOTH tasks of silencing a noisy pre-amp AND an overdrive pedal, hence why I think I need 2 decimators.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Anyone else have to use TWO noisegates?

                  Originally posted by DeadandBuried View Post
                  I don't have a problem with feedback coming from the guitar, I can control that no matter where I'm standing, and I certainly don't perform facing my amp!

                  The problem is the Ibanez tube-screamer making noise when kicked on. The pre-gain on the amp is 5. The extra gain and boost comes from the TS9.

                  However the Gstring Decimator can't do BOTH tasks of silencing a noisy pre-amp AND an overdrive pedal, hence why I think I need 2 decimators.
                  read the manual (again) - there is a loop dedicated for the pedals only, and a separate processing for the guitar signal for gstring decimator, how does your pedalboard look???

                  the preamp is normally not noisy unless there is malfunctioning
                  FOLLOW ME ON FACEBOOK https://www.facebook.com/ronmusician

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Anyone else have to use TWO noisegates?

                    I thought the G string was meant for an effects loop OR in front of amp, not BOTH at the same time.

                    My re-arranged board now looks like this: (please excuse silly writing on the pedals, its a humour thing I like to do)

                    Click image for larger version

Name:	tumblr_n2y7rl7l491r3y9vto1_500.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	129.7 KB
ID:	5776611

                    So guitar signal goes to GUITAR IN on the ISP.

                    GUITAR OUT goes to TS9, then into currently the NS-2 into front of amp.

                    DEC IN/OUT go into send/return of the amp.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Anyone else have to use TWO noisegates?

                      What? The writing is the best part!

                      You're set up correctly with the ISP. The only thing that's happening is the TS9 is changing the noise floor when engaged and thus the "proper" setting for the ISP. Eliminating the NS-2 and raising the threshold of the ISP should work even better.

                      Any time you're keying a gate off of a signal that already has increased noise, is clipped or compressed(such as after the TS9) it gets counterproductive as the gate has a much smaller sweet spot to work with. You want to be able to trigger the gate from a signal that contains no undesirable components.

                      On the other hand, you need a good way to effectively have presets for the ISP as the correct setting with boost is probably waaay too damped for your straight distortion. Does the NS-2 have a loop? Can you put the TS in the loop, leave it on, and use the NS-2 to switch it in and out?

                      You could try a really fast choppy gate like the NS-2 inserted the same way as the ISP(keyed off the dry guitar, gating in the amp's loop) that gets engaged at the same time as your OD to give you an incredibly percussive damped sound.

                      I think I personally would try to solve this problem from a different angle - take the amp to a good tech and have him quiet it down. Tubes, critical resistors, capacitors, wire routing, shielding can make a difference. Get a different OD pedal that sounds similar but is quieter. Check your cables and make sure they're not noisy or crackly. Change the pickup mounting springs to surgical tubing and add some foam under the pickups. Put a damper behind the nut and/or bridge - those segments of string really ring out when you're chugging under massive gain.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Anyone else have to use TWO noisegates?

                        Originally posted by DeadandBuried View Post
                        I have the Peavey 6505+ head, which I love, the lead channel is insane and perfect for the style we play, think ADTR, Chunk No Captain Chunk, Devil Wears Prada, Bring Me The Horizon, etc etc you get the idea.

                        However its REALLY noisy on the lead channel, I have the ISP Decimator G string which is in the FX loop to stop this, dial the knob in at about 11 o'clock and it seems to do the trick.

                        Another problem is I run an Ibanez Tubescreamer TS9 in front of the amp to give it a bit more of a kick, which is the reputable tried and tested setup for these modern metalcore type bands. The TS9 is noisy as well and causes unwanted squealing when doing the chuggy stop starty riffs.

                        The drive is on zero and the level is about 12 noon, turn it up any higher and it'll start making noise.

                        So I inserted a Boss NS-2 after the TS9 and in front of the amp. Seems to cut it out but I think it sucks tone. Never thought I'd have to use TWO noise gates in my setup! Before I owned a Marshall JCM2000 and didn't need to use anything.

                        I did read Misha Mansoor uses THREE noisegates in his setup, which is pretty crazy!

                        I've seen rig rundowns of The Devil Wears Prada and Matt Tuck from Bullet For My Valentine, both use NS-2's and ISP's in both the FX loop and in front of the amp.

                        So would this set up of 2 noisegates seem to solve the issue? And I will suffer tone loss inevitably.

                        Shall I keep the NS-2 before the amp or get another ISP (the first one) and run that between the TS9 and amp?

                        I run 2 gates too. i use an Alesis 3630 compressor/gate. This, like many rack mounted gates has two channels. My setup is:


                        Guitar-> noise gate->Amp input (5150II)->send->KFK1 eq-> noise gate ->tc electronics m300-> receive-> amp-> 4x12
                        Last edited by Mrkensei; 03-24-2014, 04:48 PM.
                        Ibanez RG7620 and RG1527 w/ SD Nazgûl/Sentient pickups.
                        Ibanez Jem 555 x2 (White Black)
                        Epiphone Custom Alpine White
                        Epiphone LP standard with SD Alnico Slash Pickup
                        Epiphone Zakk Wylde Custom
                        PRS SE Paul Allender
                        Peavey 5150II

                        Www.soundcloud.com/fyregods singer and drummer wanted.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Anyone else have to use TWO noisegates?

                          LOL thanks! Haha.

                          Yeah that set up with the ISP is to quiet down the pre-amp noise, that's not a problem anymore as its doing its job perfectly.

                          Now for the TS9, without the NS-2 after it is noisy. The NS-2 does have a loop yes, are you implying I swap it in for the ISP? Where would the ISP go then?

                          I don't mind getting an ISP II if it means I can chug with no unwanted noise coming from the TS9. To take it to a tech will probably cost the same if not more than getting a second ISP. All my cables are either Mogami or Planet Waves which are the higher end of the brands. They're shielded and noiseless too.

                          I've also read that if I switch to clean the gate will kill off the notes?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Anyone else have to use TWO noisegates?

                            Experiment man

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Anyone else have to use TWO noisegates?

                              Ok, after further thought I see that the amp's gain is multiplying the noise from the OD so much that it's hard to mute without killing everything. So you want to gate both directly before and after the amp's gain.

                              My idea would be either

                              Guitar->ISP guitar in/out->NS-2 input->NS-2 send->TS9->NS-2 return->NS-2 output->amp in->loop->ISP dec in/out

                              Best results if you tune both gates to close at exactly the same time.

                              Or even better, get a decimator II and do

                              Guitar->G-string guitar in/out->TS9(+ any other gain boost)->Dec II->amp in->loop->g-string dec in/out

                              As well as an 1/8" cable from G-string link out to Dec II link in.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X