PEDAL ORDER?

[Mincer]

Re: PEDAL ORDER?

I think there are many ways to do this, and you might come up with sounds no one else does if you experiment enough. Just remember to play!

[ThisDyingSoul76]

Re: PEDAL ORDER?

yeah, thats why I have the tuner first, and also how things seem to fit together best. Id always gathered that it was best to run dirt pedals into the front, so whether Im running my board in 2 parts, or one chain, they go to the front.. And my color pedals run either the the loop or come before the distortion. So, sounds like my layout is pretty much on point with what you are saying.. The only real concern I have is if my Wah is in the best possible place in the chain. A previous post has me second guessing that...

Your way is in the usual spot. It sounds smoother before your od/distortion/fuzz. But by putting it after you get what's called the fuzz-wah. Rather than just changing the tone it will affect the character of the distortion too. Sometimes this can be a cool thing but I personally find it usually sounds harsh. But like I said, sometimes you have no choice with certain pedals... VintAge fuzzes are notorious for not playing well with other pedals if they don't go first. Hendrix put his fuzzface before his wah for this reason. Jerry Cantrell from Alice In Chains often puts his wah after an overdrive or distortion or something.

[ThisDyingSoul76]

Re: PEDAL ORDER?

...but try the wah after od anyway, you may like it. If you have multiple od's then you could even put it between the od's. That way you can choose which which pedal based on the sound you want.

[BloodRose]

Re: PEDAL ORDER?

Your way is in the usual spot. It sounds smoother before your od/distortion/fuzz. But by putting it after you get what's called the fuzz-wah. Rather than just changing the tone it will affect the character of the distortion too. Sometimes this can be a cool thing but I personally find it usually sounds harsh. But like I said, sometimes you have no choice with certain pedals... VintAge fuzzes are notorious for not playing well with other pedals if they don't go first. Hendrix put his fuzzface before his wah for this reason. Jerry Cantrell from Alice In Chains often puts his wah after an overdrive or distortion or something.

yeah, when I get time, Ill def experiment. Funny you should mention Jerry, Im using the Jerry Cantrell wah... haha

[ThisDyingSoul76]

Re: PEDAL ORDER?

That's an awesome wah. I almost bought one new then a Dimebag wah showed up used. They're similar but the Cantrell one has a darker range.

[Liko]

Re: PEDAL ORDER?

I know I asked this long ago and just revisited that thread, but have made some changes. My main concerns are the placement of the noise suppressor and wah.

I have my chain as follows: If using my amp with loop I break the chain as follows:

Tuner/ EQ / Chorus / Delay / Delay / reverb : to the loop

Wah / OD / OD / noise gate: to the front


On a non loop amp I go from: tuner / eq / chorus / delay / delay / reverb / wah / od / od / noise supp : to the front.

Sound right? Or would a different path be more beneficial and why? Thanks

This all depends, really, on what kind of sound you're after, and on how each of your pedals behave inline versus looped.

The biggest problem I see between going back and forth between these chains is that the chains are very different in terms of what's feeding what on your board. With a loop in place, your ODs come before your synth effects (chorus/delay/verb), while in your all-inline configuration the OD pedals are last. An inline chain with the same pedal order as your looped chain (except the amp head is now last) would have the following order:

Wah->OD->OD->NG->Tuner->EQ->Chorus->Delay->Delay->Verb

Basically, in your all-inline chain, you're putting everything that's normally looped in front of everything that would normally be inline, when the loop always comes after the inline effects in the signal chain. If that's what you want, more power to you, you won't set your rig on fire doing it that way, but it's not what I'd do especially given the pedal order of your looped chain.

Here are the things I prefer to do when setting up a pedal chain, loop or no loop:

* Tuner first. This gives the tuner the cleanest, most direct signal from my axe, allowing it to best determine the actual pitch of my strings.
* Noise Gate next. Similarly to the tuner (and theoretically the tuner's output should be exactly what goes in, with or without an impedance buffer), the NG should get the most dynamic signal you have so that it can easily tell the difference between the noise floor and desirable signal. You can put it downstream of pedals that add their own noise to the noise floor, but I'd keep it in front of any extreme gain boost like a distortion pedal, as well as any compression (otherwise the difference in signal levels between noise and notes will be very narrow making the NG's job very difficult).
* Wah and EQ next, not necessarily in that order. IMO most wahs should go as early as possible, first because of what they do as an effect (they're a notch filter, the internal workings are not unlike a parametric EQ with a narrow Q, the gain pegged high and the frequency control hooked to the pedal), and second because many really good and popular wahs have a bad reputation as tone-suckers when off (bad buffers).
* Compressor and gain-boost effects next, again not necessarily in order. Typically I put the compressor first because that more accurately mimics the behavior of a natural acoustic feedback loop, and also minimizes any amplification of the OD's own noise floor. However, some people prefer a subtle compression after an OD set right on the edge, to better simulate "tube squish" producing a tone that starts crunched and then cleans up as it sustains with less volume drop. I do usually put OD before distortion, allowing the milder gain boost to feed the harder crunch similar to doing much the same with a boost pedal on a dirty amp.
* Synth effects last. chorus, phaser, flanger, delay, reverb, looper is my general preference for order of basic synth pedals. If you're trying to emulate an overdriven power amp stage, you could mix this set of pedals into your gain boosts or put them before all of them.

So, here's how I'd set your board up for my own use:

Tuner->EQ->NG->Wah->OD->OD->(Chorus->Delay->Delay->Verb)

The pedals in parentheses would be the ones I'd put in the loop if it existed and I wanted to.

[devastone]

Re: PEDAL ORDER?

So, you aren't using the loop on the NS-2? I do on mine, one of the things I really like about it.

My signal goes guitar > volume pedal > TC Polytune > NS-2 In > NS-2 Send > Phase 45 clone > modded SD-1 > Rat > NS-2 Return > NS-2 Out > Amp In (in my case an AMT SS-11b preamp). I have a Zoom G3 in the loop of the AMT for delay, reverb, and some mod effects, then AMT through an ISP Stealth power amp or direct with a cab sim. The whole rig fits into my Pedaltrain PS-2(?) bag.

[Liko]

Re: PEDAL ORDER?

So, you aren't using the loop on the NS-2? I do on mine, one of the things I really like about it.

My signal goes guitar > volume pedal > TC Polytune > NS-2 In > NS-2 Send > Phase 45 clone > modded SD-1 > Rat > NS-2 Return > NS-2 Out > Amp In (in my case an AMT SS-11b preamp). I have a Zoom G3 in the loop of the AMT for delay, reverb, and some mod effects, then AMT through an ISP Stealth power amp or direct with a cab sim. The whole rig fits into my Pedaltrain PS-2(?) bag.

The loop is most useful if you have noisy pedals, stuff that adds hiss or buzz even if the upstream signal is muted. If your board doesn't produce enough self-noise for you to care, and all you need is to cut the single-coil hum of the axe itself, you might as well just run inline with this as the first or second pedal on the board (after tuner and maybe wah). If you do have noisy pedals but no compression stages, the NS-2 can also work inline later in the chain after the gain effects.

Other possible reasons not to use the loop:

* The loop is buffered as well as the input/output of the pedal itself, so with effects in the loop, the pedal acts as a buffer stage on either side of them. You may consider this a good thing or a bad thing depending on your attitude towards buffers; the ones on the NS-2 are pretty good.
* The loop will require longer patch cables between the ends of the chain and the send/return of at least one side of the gate, which increases the total length of your signal cables and thus the capacitance, which with or without buffers has an effect on your tone.

[PFDarkside]

Re: PEDAL ORDER?

Lots of great advice here, the only thing I can add is to build up your signal chain one pedal at a time, starting from most used to least used. Get your base amp tone then add in your main overdrive or distortion. Get that tweaked. Then add in your #2 pedal. Could be the second OD, EQ, wah or delay based on your usage. Make sure you like the order, and combinations available. Then 3, 4, 5, etc.

Regarding loop vs no loop, if I don't have a loop and am using a clean amp, I place a distortion pedal where the amp preamp would go otherwise.

Personally, I like Wah first (along with phaser and Uni-Vibe) as long as it's a good wah that cuts through. I kind of like Chorus/Flanger in front of distortion (mine is between OD and Distortion) and delay & reverb after distortion. The classic Eddie was delay into raging Marshall though, (actually all effects into raging Marshall except plate verb as a mixing desk effect) so that's why you need to try all options.

The benefit of doing it one pedal at a time is that you get them all tweaked to work as a system, and you understand the nuances of you rig.

Most of all, have fun in the process!

[BloodRose]

Re: PEDAL ORDER?

So, you aren't using the loop on the NS-2? I do on mine, one of the things I really like about it.

My signal goes guitar > volume pedal > TC Polytune > NS-2 In > NS-2 Send > Phase 45 clone > modded SD-1 > Rat > NS-2 Return > NS-2 Out > Amp In (in my case an AMT SS-11b preamp). I have a Zoom G3 in the loop of the AMT for delay, reverb, and some mod effects, then AMT through an ISP Stealth power amp or direct with a cab sim. The whole rig fits into my Pedaltrain PS-2(?) bag.

with the current hookup no, but thats why I have this thread here, for such tips. I may have to try using the loop now. I wasnt sure how to use it most effectively, so I figure at the end of the chain to clean things up. But I can definately incorporate the loop..

Thanks for the additional input guys!!

[devastone]

Re: PEDAL ORDER?

The general principal is to put your noisy effects in the loop of the NS-2, but have reverb and delay after. You could also put your amps preamp in the loop too, depending on how noisy it is by itself. My preamp isn't very noisy on its own, so I just put my od/distortion pedals in the NS-2 loop, so when the noise gate shuts, it kills the signal from those pedals, hope that makes sense.

[BloodRose]

Re: PEDAL ORDER?

That's an awesome wah. I almost bought one new then a Dimebag wah showed up used. They're similar but the Cantrell one has a darker range.

Yeah, thats why I like it. Other wahs Ive tried have seemed bright and brittle.

The general principal is to put your noisy effects in the loop of the NS-2, but have reverb and delay after. You could also put your amps preamp in the loop too, depending on how noisy it is by itself. My preamp isn't very noisy on its own, so I just put my od/distortion pedals in the NS-2 loop, so when the noise gate shuts, it kills the signal from those pedals, hope that makes sense.

Yes, makes perfect sense! Just have to figure up how to best route everything. Will def try it! I saw the NS2 had the loop, but I wasnt sure how to effectively use it. Bought the pedal used, so have no manual or anything. Thanks alot!

[BloodRose]

Re: PEDAL ORDER?

LOL Just when I thought I had it done..... Back to the drawing board.... #**#^@!#(*!!!!!

j/k.. I want it to be as effective as possible..

[ThisDyingSoul76]

Re: PEDAL ORDER?

I'm in the process of rearranging my pedals too. I fixed my 25+ year old volume pedal yesterday (I refuse to pay $100 for one when I scored this one for $25) and mounted it to my board. I had to remove part of the riser I had on the back row to fit it then move all my pedals down a space. Problem now is I don't have enough cables or long enough cables to put some of the pedals where I want them in the chain and place them where I want them on the board.

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: PEDAL ORDER?

One thing I'm liking about the Line6 M13 is that you can assign which pedal groups go to the Loop of the unit (which runs out to your amp's Loop) and which ones go in the front. I haven't worked with it too much (yet, still - Fallout 4 has taken me captive ) but the downside (so far) is that it seems to be a Global setting. Not sure if that changes with each Scene though (each Scene has up to 12 pedals, and you can do 12 Scenes).

That means if you want to run your Chorus into your Distortion, you can, but I'm thinking that if your Chorus is running through the Loop, so is your Distortion. Hafta work with it more to get the full scope.