Compression and Sustain in a pedal

[SJ318]

Re: Compression and Sustain in a pedal

TwighlightOdyssey-
Thanks for the info.
I think after hearing again, a Micro Philosiphers Tone is the way to go. 9 volt use, small area, great tone, trust Gilbert's
talk on the matter. Not sure if he really uses one, but it is more useful than my MXR and inexpensive.
Thanks to you all, of course,
Steve B.

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Compression and Sustain in a pedal

If I'm not mistaken, hard knee let's more of the initial attack come through before it applies the compression.

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That's more Attack/Release related. Knee is described above...

There are nine basic parameters to a compressor:
Input level
Threshold
Ratio
Attack
Release
Knee
Make up gain
Output
Side chain

Many compressors automate some part of these. Some have additional controls for Thrust, stereo linking, and high pass filtering

[RestInPeace]

Re: Compression and Sustain in a pedal

Personally to me the best way to use a compressor is to set it to get a smooth and audibly evened out clean tone like Mark Knopfler gets with the Dan Armstrong Orange Squeezer or how Neal Schon gets that soaring lead sound with the optical Boss CS-1 and DS-1 but that's just my useless opinion

[Demanic]

Re: Compression and Sustain in a pedal

If I'm not mistaken, hard knee let's more of the initial attack come through before it applies the compression.

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[Mincer]

Re: Compression and Sustain in a pedal

That wasn't an e-bow?

Not on the studio recording. It was Robert Fripp. He marked positions on the floor (with tape) where he should stand for specific feedbacked notes. He used a Fender Princeton, I believe. That Brian Eno is a creative cat.

[SJ318]

Re: Compression and Sustain in a pedal

Hello-
Thank you for responding. I can find the vid I think, it is a YouTube guy I think. I believe I saw it in
a Premier Guitar or Guitar Player E-News I get.
On my compressor it just says volume, compression, what would "Knee" or "Ratio" or "Threshold" be on mine.
I appreciate your explanation, TwighlightOdyssey, but these are terms I have never heard.
Demanic, what do you mean by "Hard Knee all the way"? Is that my volume? All new to me.
I got all the sustain I could with my Sparkle Drive, The Dude, Archer Boost and MXR Comp on vol 10 Comp on 1.
You can here this and see it if you type in Star Spangled Banner steve buffington on YouTube. I am driving everything so
hard you can hear me on the threshold of squealing uncontrolled noise, just at the edge.
Using a Seth Lover Hbucker bridge Short A5 in the bridge position.
I will look tomorrow for the clip. Thanks for the help. God knows I don't need more gear at this point, but I was invited back to do this every year at that Festival. So in my world, a fairly prestigious thing, as you can imagine.
Thanks,
Steve B.

[beaubrummels]

Re: Compression and Sustain in a pedal

Volume and proximity to the amp help. This is how Robert Fripp got the long sustained notes in David Bowie's 'Heroes'. For a compressor, I have been using a Vise Grip which is sort of transparent, you don't hear it clamping down unless you want that. It does help with sustain, though.

That wasn't an e-bow?

[Demanic]

Re: Compression and Sustain in a pedal

Hard knee all the way.
Oh, and Robert Frip played on "Heroes"?

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[Obsessive Compulsive]

Re: Compression and Sustain in a pedal

The 'Sustain' in a compressor actually determines how long the compression lasts, as opposed to making the note sounds longer; at least in my Boss CS-3.

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Compression and Sustain in a pedal

All compressors add sustain. But you have a valid point; the PT does have incredible amounts of squish and sustain to it. I have a PT and I absolutely love it, especially for bass guitar. The type of circuit used will have a very big impact on how much sustain you achieve. The three parameters we are most concerned with when it comes to perceived sustain is RATIO, KNEE, and THRESHOLD.

The RATIO determines how hard the compressor is clamping down on the loudest parts of the signal. This is expresses as a ratio of x:1 with x signifying how many dB over the threshold you have. A very benign compression ration would be 1.25 - 3:1. That is, for every x dB above the threshold, you are getting 1 dB of output. The PT uses a very high ratio; my guess is somewhere around 10:1; it is noticeably colored and heavily squashed.

The KNEE determines how far ahead of the threshold the compressor 'sees' the signal and starts applying compression; the softer the knee, the sooner it starts clamping down on the signal. The PT uses a soft knee, so the compression starts very early.

The THRESHOLD determines when the compressor starts acting. Most stomp box compressors are set with a very low threshold and start compressing almost immediately.

One of the reasons the PT can have such massive amounts of compression and still sound musical is because it runs PARALLEL to your signal path; you can blend in your unaffected guitar signal to get your transients back, but you are still able to get the deep compression and sustain at the same time.

Apologies in advance if you already know this stuff.

TL;DR version: The PT has a very high ratio, low threshold, and soft knee. That is why it compresses so heavily and adds so much sustain.

[Mincer]

Re: Compression and Sustain in a pedal

Volume and proximity to the amp help. This is how Robert Fripp got the long sustained notes in David Bowie's 'Heroes'. For a compressor, I have been using a Vise Grip which is sort of transparent, you don't hear it clamping down unless you want that. It does help with sustain, though.

[PFDarkside]

Re: Compression and Sustain in a pedal

Steve - do you have a link to the vid? If it showed the pedal, would be good to get a feeling for settings, as well as his amp's gain level.


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And amp volume level.

[VinceT]

Re: Compression and Sustain in a pedal

And, while we wait for that, this is a great overview/introduction to compressors

https://youtu.be/P4wBy4RQcx8

I use an Xotic SP Compressor at the front end of my chain, for sustain, rather than upfront compression - there are internal switches to tweak compression style - I have it at unity volume, with highest compression setting, then dial back the blend so that it doesn't sound compressed until the notes just keep going (essentially, I'm using it as I would a parallel compressor in the studio). Only problem from your POV is that the SP can't take battery power, sorry


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[VinceT]

Re: Compression and Sustain in a pedal

Steve - do you have a link to the vid? If it showed the pedal, would be good to get a feeling for settings, as well as his amp's gain level.


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[SJ318]

Hi,
I saw a quick vid from Paul Gilbert, a new one, and he was showing off a smaller Philosiphers Tone than the one shown here recently (today), Gilbert's was not only smaller, it ran on a 9Volt battery as well.
What I liked and what my question is, the PT mini had a great sustain to it, he hit any note and it just rang and rang. My MXR compressor does not come close to that.
I could not have better gear, guitar, pedals, pickups, etc. so I wonder is there a pedal that is as good or better than the clip I saw.
Don't want a mag in my hand over the strings or special "Sustain" p'ups. So for what I just described, and I am a complete newbee on comp/sust. pedals, any advice? 9 volt battery is essential.
Talking a nice feedback loop.
Thank you,
Steve B.