Muff into TS/OD?

[Silence Kid]

Anyone do this without the bass sounding like mush?

There's a vid. of J. Mascis describing his tone as Muff -> TS -> clean, loud Marshall, setting both pedals quite low. I'm playing around with my Jazzmaster, Little Big Muff, Fulldrive 2 and 12" Champ trying to do something like this; I'm coming close, but the bass is a bit of a mess. Then again, so is J's... But I think he has it a bit tighter.

Anyone do something like this?

[Demanic]

Re: Muff into TS/OD?

I would think that you would want the TS in front of the Muff.

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[Lampy H]

Re: Muff into TS/OD?

^ That's what I was thinking as well.

[Silence Kid]

Re: Muff into TS/OD?

Figured most people would say that; wondering if anyone's had good results stacking low to high, as that's what J. seems to do.

(Although I do usually stack pedals low to high; I find high/low loses most of the qualities of the lower output box, but haven't really tried it much with a Muff... Really I don't use a Muff much period.)

[stevie_bees]

Re: Muff into TS/OD?

Gilmour uses an overdrive after a Muff. It acts more of an EQ rather than adding drive. I guess like any pair of pedals ,some work better together than others.

[PFDarkside]

Re: Muff into TS/OD?

It's all about gain staging and EQing right? Too much gain, bass or volume into the next stage will give you that flubby and farty thing. Depending on which muff you have and if/how it's been modded (big for Gilmour, right?) will be a factor in if it will stack well. Turning the level and gain lower than you might use by itself could be the ticket for an awesome stacked tone. And finally remember the final pedal contributes the majority of the sonic character. So a TS last will give you the signature boosted mids. (Which I imagine is why you are trying it! )

[ThisDyingSoul76]

Re: Muff into TS/OD?

I put my muff clone last. I find it sounds choked if there is a buffered pedal after it.

[Blille]

Muff into TS/OD?

Anyone do this without the bass sounding like mush?

There's a vid. of J. Mascis describing his tone as Muff -> TS -> clean, loud Marshall, setting both pedals quite low. I'm playing around with my Jazzmaster, Little Big Muff, Fulldrive 2 and 12" Champ trying to do something like this; I'm coming close, but the bass is a bit of a mess. Then again, so is J's... But I think he has it a bit tighter.

Anyone do something like this?

I've tried. I run a similar chain TS (EHX ERD) into a Big Muff into a 5e3 so I played with moving them around.

My conclusion was that he runs his amp much cleaner than I'll ever can (or want). Not sure we can get that clean with a tweed. Same with Gilmour.

Do you run comp? Try to put it after the muff see if it helps.

Btw, I would try to experiment with your v1 tube to see if it can control the bass mess.

[thrill74]

Re: Muff into TS/OD?

J uses the OD for a volume cut when it's on, instead of Muff coloring. I've seen a few videos on this and have thought that an eq after the Muff would be better at lowering the volume. I think J uses the OD's because of its natural sound and non over the top gain. Even though he's only using the volume anyway.

[thrill74]

Re: Muff into TS/OD?

You should mod your Muff btw. Best thing I ever did for mine. Very Ram's headish.

[Silence Kid]

Re: Muff into TS/OD?

J uses the OD for a volume cut when it's on, instead of Muff coloring. I've seen a few videos on this and have thought that an eq after the Muff would be better at lowering the volume. I think J uses the OD's because of its natural sound and non over the top gain. Even though he's only using the volume anyway.

Interesting to know, I'll play with that a bit... As for modding, not certain how receptive a surface-mount "Little" pedal is to that, but I've listened to some demos comparing Big/Little/Nano and know that they do sound different anyway. I've never much liked the way this one handled bass on its own, so maybe I'll look into what mod (or model) would tighten things up.

I have a stock RCA/Fender pre-amp valve, switched it back in after using an RFT for a while... Maybe the RCA is slightly sparklier/less bassy? Not a huge difference to me. Guess that means they're both a bit dark, all I have on hand other than that right now are Sovtek/Chinese.

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: Muff into TS/OD?

I'm coming close, but the bass is a bit of a mess. Then again, so is J's... But I think he has it a bit tighter.

Then at this point you have to look at the speakers/amp/cab differences between you and he, as well as the guitar and pickups, and don't forget individual tone. If your tone is naturally bassier than his, you're getting more bass. Also if you're not standing in front of his rig and just hearing it through YT or a studio-processed recording where extra EQ was at play, you really don't know what his rig really sounds like.

[thrill74]

Re: Muff into TS/OD?

Hey Silence, one of the biggest things overlooked is what Muff J is using. A stock Muff's eq is so different than J's Ram's Head era muff. Even then, he managed to get a good one Also, he's got it almost completely maxed out on the Volume and set somewhere inbetween on the Tone. I did Gibson175's mod and it changed the pedal for flat mids and made the bass appear less over powering. I can't recommend that mod enough. Also, J plays with his OD on all the time after the Muff (which is always on). The OD's gain is off and the volume is barely open. That way, when he turns the OD off, the Muff seems louder.

[Silence Kid]

Re: Muff into TS/OD?

Thanks again for the feedback... Sounds like I won't be able to do this without a bigger amp/more headroom/better speakers, but those are some great pointers. My Champ is Silverface rather than Tweed, but it's still not four non-MV Marshalls or whatever and probably won't be for a while. Minus all that, I get closer to the tone (or at least get a more satisfying tone) with a distortion pedal and my Jazzmaster, but the suggestions make the TS->OD combo more workable and help me learn about my pedals.

I should find the video again... Actually J. was using some weird sort of Muff clone (or re-house) that he called a "Muff" anyway, same with his OD which was some boutique box he kept calling a "Tube Screamer."