True Bypass .... fact or fiction ?

[devastone]

Re: True Bypass .... fact or fiction ?

The problem with the "standard" Phase 90 is that it isn't true bypase, it's what MXR calls "True Hardwire Bypass", which is misleading, and not TB. I always prefer Phase and Flange in front of the amp FWIW, but as always, YMMV.

https://www.premierguitar.com/articles/more-on-bypassing-the-hype-1

[JMP/HBE]

Re: True Bypass .... fact or fiction ?

input and output impedances is what it's all about.

learn this and you will have mastered this realm.

Can't you just measure impedance of each pedal with a meter & use accordingly ?

[dpaterson]

Re: True Bypass .... fact or fiction ?

Can't you just measure impedance of each pedal with a meter & use accordingly ?

Well that's why I was asking. You don't even have to measure it i.e. just look at the specs. But what then (is why I was asking LLL to elaborate a bit)???

I mean in my (short) chain I have a mixture of 1MΩ and 470kΩ pedals. Does it make a difference??? If so WHAT difference does it make??? If so does it matter which are where in the chain??? That type of thing.

[JMP/HBE]

Re: True Bypass .... fact or fiction ?

Well that's why I was asking. You don't even have to measure it i.e. just look at the specs. But what then (is why I was asking LLL to elaborate a bit)???

I mean in my (short) chain I have a mixture of 1MΩ and 470kΩ pedals. Does it make a difference??? If so WHAT difference does it make??? If so does it matter which are where in the chain??? That type of thing.

Read my first post on page #1 about pedal order.

[dpaterson]

Re: True Bypass .... fact or fiction ?

I dealt with it this week, there is something to it for sure.

If you mean this one (the above) then I'm (still) confused.

[LLL]

Re: True Bypass .... fact or fiction ?

Is there any way you could explain this in sort of clear and concise and layman's type terms. Believe me this is something I've wondered about (you know my setup well) and tried to "get" but man: all the stuff I've found on the Internet has just not explained things to me (at least not in PRACTICAL terms).

Regards,

Dale.

I love this article; posted it here before:

http://screaminfx.com/tech/why-and-w...ffer-pedal.htm

General rule of thumb: the higher the input imp. and the lower the output imp. - the better. Then the signal passes through strong.

[JMP/HBE]

Re: True Bypass .... fact or fiction ?

If you mean this one (the above) then I'm (still) confused.

Im sorry. read post #21 at top of page #2.

[JMP/HBE]

Re: True Bypass .... fact or fiction ?

So this week i move my phase 90 out of the loop and in front of the amp. There was such a dramatic difference in my Boss CE-2 [being wetter] without the 90 parked in front i had to lower the internal trim pot on the Boss 2 days ago.
Well it was still too wet and i had to back off the trim pot again today to maybe 1/8th open to find the sweet spot.
Thats how big a difference that made.
I had been running the 90 in the loop for at least 3 years.
Also i had not run my Onfloor Audio Tube Boost Overdrive with my MESA Dual Rec had it in storage, and holy sheep**** what a combo.
The OFA is back on my board with a Vengence.

[Rich_S]

Re: True Bypass .... fact or fiction ?

Pete Cornish wrote be-all-and-end-all paper on true bypass, though he has a strong anti-TB bias. He was the first guy I know of who points out that we don't just need to be concerned with the input and output impedances of each pedal, but the change in those impedances when we switch a pedal in or out of the chain. I've occasionally come across certain chains of pedals that would work in some combinations, but sound awful in others, losing volume and/or treble. Changing pedal order or inserting buffered pedals in between problem pairs generally solved the problems.

Here's a link to Cornish's now-classic paper on the subject: Pete Cornish - The Case against True Bypass.

Agree or disagree. Use true bypass if you wish. Don't if you don't. Can we stop talking about it now?

[JMP/HBE]

Re: True Bypass .... fact or fiction ?

Pete Cornish wrote be-all-and-end-all paper on true bypass, though he has a strong anti-TB bias. He was the first guy I know of who points out that we don't just need to be concerned with the input and output impedances of each pedal, but the change in those impedances when we switch a pedal in or out of the chain. I've occasionally come across certain chains of pedals that would work in some combinations, but sound awful in others, losing volume and/or treble. Changing pedal order or inserting buffered pedals in between problem pairs generally solved the problems.

Here's a link to Cornish's now-classic paper on the subject: Pete Cornish - The Case against True Bypass.

Agree or disagree. Use true bypass if you wish. Don't if you don't. Can we stop talking about it now?

Whats wrong with talking about it ?

[PFDarkside]

Re: True Bypass .... fact or fiction ?

The problem with the "standard" Phase 90 is that it isn't true bypase, it's what MXR calls "True Hardwire Bypass", which is misleading, and not TB. I always prefer Phase and Flange in front of the amp FWIW, but as always, YMMV.

https://www.premierguitar.com/articl...ing-the-hype-1

Yes, exactly. True Bypass is far better than that. I also prefer Phaser and Flanger in front of the amp as well. I guess it’s the sound of the albums I grew up listening to.

I love this article; posted it here before:

http://screaminfx.com/tech/why-and-w...ffer-pedal.htm

General rule of thumb: the higher the input imp. and the lower the output imp. - the better. Then the signal passes through strong.

You can’t say that as a blanket statement. That precludes the Fuzz Face and it’s awesome pickup/pedal interaction, as well as some other pedals that use this (like the Mad Professor Royal Blue). Also, too high of an input impedance can be perceived as too bright. The TU-3 is an example of this. You’ll find people that upgraded from a TU-2 to a TU-3 and found their tone got brighter. The TU-3w actually has lower input impedance than the TU-3.





In the end, there’s no right or wrong, just preferences. Know how it all works so you can choose what works best for your situation.

[LLL]

Re: True Bypass .... fact or fiction ?

You can’t say that as a blanket statement. That precludes the Fuzz Face and it’s awesome pickup/pedal interaction, as well as some other pedals that use this (like the Mad Professor Royal Blue). Also, too high of an input impedance can be perceived as too bright. The TU-3 is an example of this. You’ll find people that upgraded from a TU-2 to a TU-3 and found their tone got brighter. The TU-3w actually has lower input impedance than the TU-3.

In the end, there’s no right or wrong, just preferences. Know how it all works so you can choose what works best for your situation.

If you read the article, there are concessions regarding fuzz faces, wahs and the like due to their interaction with the guitar.

[dpaterson]

Re: True Bypass .... fact or fiction ?

Whats wrong with talking about it ?

Yeh. What's wrong with talking about it???

For what it's worth:

I for one have learned more in the last month or so thanks to these forums than I have in the past thirty years or so and it's BECAUSE of threads like this and ongoing discussions (some stuff that I didn't know about and some stuff that I didn't care about until now not realising just how important it is).

But thanks for all the info. everyone.

I'd indeed read one or two of those same articles previously. But all sort of "comes together" on this thread.

Cannot help but get the feeling that this is all somehow related to gain staging (or gain staging is related to all of this)???

[Zombiwoof]

Re: True Bypass .... fact or fiction ?

The problem with the "standard" Phase 90 is that it isn't true bypase, it's what MXR calls "True Hardwire Bypass", which is misleading, and not TB. I always prefer Phase and Flange in front of the amp FWIW, but as always, YMMV.

https://www.premierguitar.com/articl...ing-the-hype-1

In Dunlop/MXR lingo, "hardwire bypass" is the old MXR tone-sucking bypass where the input of the circuit is still connected when in bypass, "true hardwire bypass" is real true bypass where the signal goes from the input to the output without the circuit connected when in bypass. Dunlop has updated the bypass on some pedals and wahs to real true bypass over the years, but many still have the half-ass "hardwire bypass" that causes tone suck.
Al

[PFDarkside]

Re: True Bypass .... fact or fiction ?

If you read the article, there are concessions regarding fuzz faces, wahs and the like due to their interaction with the guitar.

In fairness, those are pretty niche cases. In the big picture, the development of FET switching and consistent input/output impedance was a huge step forward for guitarists.