Volume Pedal, Noise Gate and Wah : Order ?

[Lorenzar]

Hi guys !

Until now, I've been plenty happy with my pedalboard which was in the same configuration for a while. There was just a little space in it that I decided to fill with ordering a Volume Pedal, Boss FV30H in this case (all the other ones that are not mini, are too big).

My plan is to use the Volume Pedal for cleaning the amp gain when needed (I suck at using my guitar volume knob depending on what I play) and I'd do some swells on clean settings as well, but probably not much. Obviously, I plan on putting the volume pedal early in my chain, first was my initial thought.

I have a Noise Suppressor, Boss NS-2 (4 cable method) and also a Morley Bad Horsie Wah (and a Polytune 2 tuner, true bypass, which will go into the tuner out of the volume pedal).

Here is my current config :

Guitar->Wah (Bad Horsie)>NS-2 Input>Ns-2 Send>Tuner>Modulation>Tube Screamer>Amp
Amp Send>NS2 Return>Ns2 Output>EQ>Modulation>Delay>Reverb

I either put the Wah or NS2 first, and never noticed a difference to be honest. Right now the wah is first, but used to be first in the NS2 loop.
As Morley calls it a "clear tone" thing, I'm not sure whether the Wah is true bypass or buffered, but I guess it's some kind of buffer, and I'm pretty sure the NS-2 is buffered. My modulations are provided by Boss MD500, which is buffered I think when you don't change that parameter and my Delay and Reverb are also Boss, so buffered I guess.

Adding this passive 250K volume pedal, I wonder where it should sit. Like I said, my initial thought was first, then NS-2 or Wah.
Now would some buffered pedal would be good upfront or would it hurt ?
How the NS2 will react with the volume pedal ?
When the volume pedal backed off, is there a scenario in which the NS-2 will do more unwanted noise cutting ?

I'm actually not so much concerned about the wah, although for practical reason if I could put it first with NS2 second and Volume Pedal third position, that'd be really cool as I'd just put the volume pedal in the gap I have on my pedalboard without changing anything else.

But I'm not feeling it would work (unless maybe I change for a FV30L for third position in the chain ? It's not too late for doing that by the way, I'd lose tuner out though).

My biggest concern is Volume Pedal and NS2 interaction (although if placed first, the volume pedal is just another guitar volume right ?)

[PFDarkside]

Re: Volume Pedal, Noise Gate and Wah : Order ?

This is a good question.

My thinking would be get the low impedance volume pedal and put it after the NS-2 (either in the loop or after). You can probably try it with the high impedance version to see how it works and swap to the low impedance if the sweep isn’t to your liking.

I’ve never used a noise suppressor though and if I use a volume I like it very early in the chain. I’m thinking in your case you want the full guitar volume hitting the NS-2 input to allow it to gate properly, then put the volume in the NS-2 loop to pull back the signal as it hits the amp.

I’m curious what others say.

[Gtrjunior]

Volume Pedal, Noise Gate and Wah : Order ?

If I’m reading your chain correctly you have modulation both in front and in the loop?

I would put the tuner>volume>wah>gate>ts>mod>
front of amp.
So tuner/vol/wah not in the gate unless the wah is very noisy(?) that could go in the gate.

Modulation(2)/delay/reverb into loop.


Edit: the bad horsie is not TB. It’s buffered. I had one (still do) and I could hear some tone suck from it.
What tuner do you have? Many tuners are buffered. You could put the tuner after the vol/wah but before the gate.

[VinceT]

Re: Volume Pedal, Noise Gate and Wah : Order ?

https://youtu.be/TF-W7JIaPHE

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[VinceT]

Re: Volume Pedal, Noise Gate and Wah : Order ?

All of which to say, I’d have the volume pedal AFTER the NS2 (I.e. post gain stages, but pre delays, etc.)


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[beaubrummels]

Re: Volume Pedal, Noise Gate and Wah : Order ?

I‘d just have the wah and any dirt pedals that create unwanted noise in the noise suppression loop and have the volume after all that so it’s only affecting how hard you’re hitting the amp.

[Gtrjunior]

Re: Volume Pedal, Noise Gate and Wah : Order ?

All of which to say, I’d have the volume pedal AFTER the NS2 (I.e. post gain stages, but pre delays, etc.)


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I didn’t watch the video but you just made a good point that I had neglected.
The vol after the gate would keep the low signal level (heel down position) from being chopped off.
Good call there.

[Lorenzar]

Re: Volume Pedal, Noise Gate and Wah : Order ?

Yes I have modulation both in front and in the loop (via a Boss MD500 which got 2 inputs and 2 outputs). I'm more of a Mods beofre gain type of guy. I run Phaser, Chorus, Rotary, Vibrato befoe gain (and besides the pahser, most of them clean anyway), I just put Flanger and Tremolo in the loop.

I wouldn't say any of my pedals are noisy by the way. They're not. I use the Noise Suppressor because I play on High Gain amps (such as Victory V30 MKII and Marshall JVM) to get rid of some feedback, hiss etc....But I'm fine with my pedals noise.


Volume Pedal in the loop won't work for my application, probably killer for doing swells with gain I guess, but like I said for swells, I'll be clean or almost clean and I'd use this Volume Pedal for cleaning up the gain, like I would with the guitar volume knob. It's definitely not for Master Volume purpose (I already use the EQ as a second master volume, everything's flat just a boost in volume).


Yes, one of my concern is the Noise Gate chopping off the volume too soon when heeling down the volume pedal. I wonder whethere noise gate before or after the volume pedal would not do this.

[Gtrjunior]

Re: Volume Pedal, Noise Gate and Wah : Order ?

I would think the vol after the gate would keep the signal intact since the gating has already occurred prior to the signal hitting the volume pedal.

[NegativeEase]

Re: Volume Pedal, Noise Gate and Wah : Order ?

I suggest lots of experimentation, your high impedance pickups will act differently with a potentiometer first (Such as first in many Wahs or Volume Pedals) versus a buffered circuit in a regular engaged pedal which would reclaim the signal degradation in the cable first. -Depends on the brigntness you are looking for too.

Neither is "correct" of course -just vastly different sounds and response to be had.

Volume Pedal obviously depends on if you want to control your input to your TS overdrive or not -or use as a master volume or just a full volume cut between songs. -but since you are concerned about the drive into the amp pre -I suggest putting it last as a Master, Cut and Drive control -as it accomplishes all of those in the last position.

[Lorenzar]

Re: Volume Pedal, Noise Gate and Wah : Order ?

Ok guys.

So I received the Volume Pedal.

I did some tests (with and without volume pedal, with and without wah etc...).

First of all, this FV30H doesn't suck tone (or very slightly), even with the tuner engaged, the sound stays consistant.

I'v noticed my wah makes a little bit of noise (very little, you can't notice it in a band mix) and alter the sound a little bit (maybe slightly brighter with the wah in the chain, again, you can notice this when you do A/B test, in a band mix, not a chance/doesn't make much difference).

If anything, putting the volume pedal before wah, seemed to warm the sound a little and actually made it sound more like guitar straight into amp (probably because the slight added treble from the wah, is balanced by the slight treble loss of the volume pedal). But all of this once again is very very subtle, absolutely unoticed if you really play instead of focusing on observing differences in a A/B comparison.

For the NS-2 gate, I opted for a cooler setting, with the threshold set at noon, halfway. Doesn't chop the volume when the VP is heel down. With a more extreme setting, of course it will do.


All in all, I've set my pedalboard with Volume Pedal first, then NS2 input, then Wah as the first pedal in the NS2 loop. It gives me the option without changing anything to put the Volume Pedal in the loop as well if I want to with just changing Volume Pedal Out to NS2 Return (instead of NS2 input) and plugging guitar input into NS2 input and Amp Send into Volume Pedal in.

So I can change the scenario depending on how I fell this way and either have Volume Pedal first in the chain or in the loop (after gain and before delay, reverb etc...). After buffered pedals, the volume pedal sweep doesn't feel that different to me by the way, but I prefer to have the volume pedal first in the chain anyway.