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EP-3 preamp magical or just what they had at the time?

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  • #16
    Re: EP-3 preamp magical or just what they had at the time?

    Originally posted by misterwhizzy View Post
    I bought a PCB from Aion and parts to build one and find out. I hope it's magical. Then it can become another awesome clone pedal like my Centaur knockoff. One by one, all the brand-name pedals seem to be moving off my board. Except the TU-2. I'm pretty sure the apocalypse won't take that down.
    Let me know how that goes! I see it has the charge pump to get the voltage up. DIY intrigues me...

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    • #17
      Re: EP-3 preamp magical or just what they had at the time?

      They definitely change the EQ but I think there's more to it than just that. I remember reading somewhere that the original circuit does something special in terms of frequency-dependent phase alignment, something that wasn't anticipated when the preamp section was designed. A happy accident.

      Of course that might just have been marketing BS; I don't know enough about electronics theory say for sure.

      Still, I don't think the enhancement it gives is limited solely to EQ. There's something different and special going on.
      At least that's my impression.
      .
      "My hovercraft is full of eels."

      .

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      • #18
        Re: EP-3 preamp magical or just what they had at the time?

        Yeah, I saw mention of the phase shift. That's actually what got me so curious because I don't understand it.

        If anyone understands the "phase shift of certain frequencies" and can explain it to me in simple terms I would love to understand what the heck that means?

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        • #19
          Re: EP-3 preamp magical or just what they had at the time?

          Originally posted by LLL View Post
          I've talked about it before here a handful of times; more specifically warning people of the fake EP3 preamps that had been saturating the market.

          I don't have just one rig, obviously with all of my tone tweaking I use a bunch of different rigs (including some VSTs - "computer amps") and combinations thereof depending on what I'm doing.

          I use the Badgerplex Trilogy mainly with my plexi... and I've had it since 2013. It's a keeper.

          Here's a google search for posts showing "Badgeplex" on the subject; you'll see mine:

          https://www.google.com/search?source...4dUDCAc&uact=5
          Dunlop Echoplex doesn't have preamp. It's just emulating echoplex tape delay.

          Dunlop EP-101 is their version of the echoplex type preamp.

          I think calling them fakes is a bit overstatement. Their merely pedals aiming to that smilar sound.
          "So understand/Don't waste your time always searching for those wasted years/Face up, make your stand/And realize you're living in the golden years"
          Iron Maiden - Wasted Years

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          • #20
            Re: EP-3 preamp magical or just what they had at the time?

            Originally posted by Jacew View Post
            I think calling them fakes is a bit overstatement. Their merely pedals aiming to that smilar sound.
            I'll quote myself here:

            "From my understanding, the Xotic EP Booster and pedals such as the EP-Pre by ClinchFX, the Baderplex by Badger Effects, or the Secret Preamp by Chase Tone are different beasts entirely. Kind of like the difference between 'inspired by' (EP Booster) and 'based on' (EP-Pre, Badgerplex, and Secret Preamp)."

            By fake, LLL maybe meaning those pedals 'inspired by' and as you said, merely aiming to recreate a similar sounds/tone of the EP3 preamp rather than the pedals using the identical electronic topology and parts like the Badgerplex.

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            • #21
              Re: EP-3 preamp magical or just what they had at the time?

              "Fakes" as in targeting the market for EP-3 preamps and marketing their stomps as Echoplex preamps (some to the point of actually using the "Echoplex" or "EP" label), but having a different circuit or even FET than the real thing. They are blatant with pushing their product as Echoplex preamps, when they're not.

              A parallel I suppose would be the Agile "les paul" series of guitars (AL-3000, etc)... if they were to place an "LP" on the headstock, or even place a "Les Paul" on the headstock - fake.

              I had the xotic EP-Booster (hmm.. wonder what the "EP" stands for...? ), it does not do what the Badgerplex (for ex.) does... hence my selling of it.

              I owned the xotic for maybe 3 months; I've had my Badgerplex since 2013 and still do.

              Ain't nothin like the real thing.
              Last edited by LLL; 12-07-2019, 11:52 PM.
              Lefty Lounge Lizard's Guitars & Amps Extravaganza



              Fastest ears in the West

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              • #22
                Re: EP-3 preamp magical or just what they had at the time?

                Originally posted by Dave Locher View Post
                Yeah, I later realized that you could have posted "Badgerplex" a million times and I wouldn't have known what it was.

                Is it safe to say this circuit pays off the most with the low/mid-gain amps?

                I am still intrigued and hope to try one out eventually but the realization that I don't like Page's tone and don't want to sound more like early EVH has kind of pushed it from "gotta try one NOW!" to "really gotta try one of those someday." Now it's second in line behind the Catalinbread Talisman I keep hoping to score cheap. Missed one a month or so ago...
                I don't think it would be of any use for modern metal, for ex. ... it's a period piece and works awesome for the period-style music it was in.

                Low/mid gain mainly, yes.

                Lots more dudes than Page and EVH used an Echoplex. Brian May for example. Eric Johnson (used to anyways, for a long time). etc
                Lefty Lounge Lizard's Guitars & Amps Extravaganza



                Fastest ears in the West

                COVID-19: The Moronavirus.

                My Soundcloud

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                • #23
                  Re: EP-3 preamp magical or just what they had at the time?

                  I think when they say "inspired by" it means they're trying to approximate the tone but using a different circuit. My understanding is that most of these are essentially EQ pedals and IMO they lack something special that the real ones deliver.

                  Authentic ones recreate the actual circuit from the old units. And some I think go a step further and use all NOS parts rather than just the vintage transistor which is at the heart of it.
                  .
                  "My hovercraft is full of eels."

                  .

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: EP-3 preamp magical or just what they had at the time?

                    Originally posted by BlakeC27 View Post
                    I'll quote myself here:

                    "From my understanding, the Xotic EP Booster and pedals such as the EP-Pre by ClinchFX, the Baderplex by Badger Effects, or the Secret Preamp by Chase Tone are different beasts entirely. Kind of like the difference between 'inspired by' (EP Booster) and 'based on' (EP-Pre, Badgerplex, and Secret Preamp)."

                    By fake, LLL maybe meaning those pedals 'inspired by' and as you said, merely aiming to recreate a similar sounds/tone of the EP3 preamp rather than the pedals using the identical electronic topology and parts like the Badgerplex.
                    That's pretty much my point. By same definition every piece of gear using modeling technology is "fake"?

                    Are micro sized EHX Electric mistresses also "fake"? Or every variant of TS, Big Muff, etc... that isn't using exactly same components than original?
                    "So understand/Don't waste your time always searching for those wasted years/Face up, make your stand/And realize you're living in the golden years"
                    Iron Maiden - Wasted Years

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: EP-3 preamp magical or just what they had at the time?

                      Originally posted by Jacew View Post
                      That's pretty much my point. By same definition every piece of gear using modeling technology is "fake"?

                      Are micro sized EHX Electric mistresses also "fake"? Or every variant of TS, Big Muff, etc... that isn't using exactly same components than original?
                      Yes.

                      (except probably micro sized EHX EMs)

                      https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fake

                      fake adjective

                      \ ˈfāk
                      \
                      faker; fakest
                      Definition of fake

                      (Entry 1 of 5)
                      : not true, real, or genuine : counterfeit, sham He was wearing a fake mustache. She held up the bowl to the window light and smiled her fakest smile yet …
                      This is especially fake:

                      Click image for larger version

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                      Lefty Lounge Lizard's Guitars & Amps Extravaganza



                      Fastest ears in the West

                      COVID-19: The Moronavirus.

                      My Soundcloud

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                      • #26
                        Re: EP-3 preamp magical or just what they had at the time?

                        Originally posted by LLL View Post
                        Yes.

                        (except probably micro sized EHX EMs)

                        https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fake



                        This is especially fake:

                        [ATTACH=CONFIG]102434[/ATTACH]
                        Well... Can't argue with that.

                        I personally consider calling something fake implies genuine deception, which might be a case with the Dunlop, but definitely not with the EP booster, as it's never implied, and no one who knows what it is would never think on their own, that it really is genuine Echoplex preamp.

                        Actually one could argue that Dunlop as the name owner has full right to change the scheme and sell it as Echoplex (just like EHX going digital in micro EM pedals). But that's pointless semantics.

                        They are what they are.
                        "So understand/Don't waste your time always searching for those wasted years/Face up, make your stand/And realize you're living in the golden years"
                        Iron Maiden - Wasted Years

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: EP-3 preamp magical or just what they had at the time?

                          I hate to see any thread devolve into bickering...but what the hey, we're already here! The Tube Screamer knockoffs are all duplicates of the original circuit. They do what a TS does.
                          I believe if you go back to the launch of the EP Booster you saw all kinds of reference to "that Echoplex magic."
                          LLL is right: if a product suggests that it does what the Echoplex does and the circuit is fundamentally different it is either "fake" or at the very least "misleading."

                          If someone duplicates the circuit with equivalent components then it is "legitimate" or "authentic."

                          If someone somehow created a different circuit that does all the same things to a guitar signal I would call that "inspired by" or "captures the magic of..."

                          But a booster that doesn't do the phase shifting thing is just a booster. Just like an overdrive with no midhump and no clean signal in parallel is just an overdrive.

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                          • #28
                            Re: EP-3 preamp magical or just what they had at the time?

                            Originally posted by Jacew View Post
                            Well... Can't argue with that.

                            I personally consider calling something fake implies genuine deception, which might be a case with the Dunlop, but definitely not with the EP booster, as it's never implied, and no one who knows what it is would never think on their own, that it really is genuine Echoplex preamp.

                            Actually one could argue that Dunlop as the name owner has full right to change the scheme and sell it as Echoplex (just like EHX going digital in micro EM pedals). But that's pointless semantics.

                            They are what they are.
                            I don't necessarily think that if something is "fake", that it is inherently or always bad/negative - it's just not the real thing.

                            The other thing is, there are shades of deception - the Dunlop above is full on, while the xotic EP Booster is just a little by using "EP" in its name (they jumped on the Echoplex preamp stomp wave/craze and rode it).
                            Lefty Lounge Lizard's Guitars & Amps Extravaganza



                            Fastest ears in the West

                            COVID-19: The Moronavirus.

                            My Soundcloud

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: EP-3 preamp magical or just what they had at the time?

                              Originally posted by Dave Locher View Post
                              I hate to see any thread devolve into bickering...but what the hey, we're already here! The Tube Screamer knockoffs are all duplicates of the original circuit. They do what a TS does.
                              I believe if you go back to the launch of the EP Booster you saw all kinds of reference to "that Echoplex magic."
                              LLL is right: if a product suggests that it does what the Echoplex does and the circuit is fundamentally different it is either "fake" or at the very least "misleading."

                              If someone duplicates the circuit with equivalent components then it is "legitimate" or "authentic."

                              If someone somehow created a different circuit that does all the same things to a guitar signal I would call that "inspired by" or "captures the magic of..."

                              But a booster that doesn't do the phase shifting thing is just a booster. Just like an overdrive with no midhump and no clean signal in parallel is just an overdrive.
                              I get your point. Not really much worth arguing about meaning of pointless marketing jargon, it's 95% crap anyway

                              No booster is just a booster though. There's always different variety they add in.
                              "So understand/Don't waste your time always searching for those wasted years/Face up, make your stand/And realize you're living in the golden years"
                              Iron Maiden - Wasted Years

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: EP-3 preamp magical or just what they had at the time?

                                Hey guys, just FYI the Chase preamp appears to have a discount going on. I just ordered one for $130 after shipping and they're starting price is $170 ish on Reverb.

                                https://chasetone.com/secret-preamp/

                                I'l see how I like it and whatnot... I currently have an SP compressor as an 'always on' pedal, especially for cleans. I didn't care for the EP boost that much but this does sound different to my ears, at least from clips.

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