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Ok Artie how do I fix this one?

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    Kent S.
    Volume Enhanceologist

  • Kent S.
    replied
    Re: Ok Artie how do I fix this one?

    In both I figured that you were actually using DPDTs as SPDTs ... If not well, this is still my solution, and they cost like a buck twenty-five more.
    In both the tone control is not active unless either the neck or middle pup is selected (it's always active except when the bridge is on by it's lonesome). In both the loading of the 250k (neck and middle) volume control is eliminated by lifting it's ground whenever the bridge pup is active, note that it will still function as an attenuator for the neck and middle pups ... allowing a partial volume control for them. The 500k is then the master volume, this works out well. The difference with the second is that when the neck and middle are combined the impedance drops which makes the tone control setting become a bit brighter when both pups are used ... some people like this, some people don't ...either way. It does give one the option of having one cap value for the neck,one for the volume,and then their combines values when both are used. Of course it will be active if the bridge is added into the mix, but that's no big deal ... of course the tone control will be disabled when the bridge is used alone. The '50's wiring can be done as well, note swap points.
    Those white rectangles on the switches (second schematic are where I had to erase a trace, pay no attention to them, there is no connection between those terminals). Maybe I finally fixed all the spelling errors.
    Kent S.
    Volume Enhanceologist
    Last edited by Kent S.; 07-14-2004, 03:27 AM.

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  • Kent S.
    Volume Enhanceologist

  • Kent S.
    replied
    Re: Ok Artie how do I fix this one?

    Artie's III B (another revision)...

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  • Kent S.
    Volume Enhanceologist

  • Kent S.
    replied
    Re: Ok Artie how do I fix this one?

    First things first ... The original query ... Artie's III A (Revised, yeah by me ... whadda 'bout it?)...

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  • Kent S.
    Volume Enhanceologist

  • Kent S.
    replied
    Re: Ok Artie how do I fix this one?

    Originally posted by dr.barlo
    Artie, yeah I am talking about the first (in your list) kinda wiring. Well I never bothered to check out the second type. Maybe I should, yet did not have any problems with losing all the output in the middle position when turning the vol of either one to 0. Because I simply use 10-5 (audio) on my vol.

    B
    Both forms of wiring are fine, just with the traditional wiring at the extreme low side (like trying to volume roll a pup in) when one control is at zero it will shut both pups off. The down side to the alternate wiring is that it will change the pups tone greatly the lower it ( that pup's volume control) is set(increasing the load upon the pup(s). Also, it tends to change the way the volume taper reacts ... not physically, but it does nonetheless; single coils((read pups with lower impedances)) are effected a bit less by this also.

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  • idsnowdog
    Imperator of Indignation

  • idsnowdog
    replied
    Re: Ok Artie how do I fix this one?

    Well I tried the wiring and it kind of works. The tone control still isn't totaly out of the loop for the humbucker unless the 250k volume pot is at 0. I think I might need a 500k pot for the tone because the 250k tone still rolls off too much of the high end. Originaly I had a 1 meg for the tone.

    If anyone is wondering the guitar has a Dimarzio Megadrive at the bridge. Jackson single coil in the middle and a Dimarzio Virtual Vintage 2.0 single coil at the neck.

    I also made a brass baseplate for the middle single coil and it really improves the sound. Nice chunk, twang and articulation. I was thinking about selling some on ebay.

    Snowdog

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  • dr.barlo
    Mojo's Minions

  • dr.barlo
    replied
    Re: Ok Artie how do I fix this one?

    Originally posted by ArtieToo
    Edit: Which, by the way, just gave me a great idea. Film at eleven.


    Right on!

    B

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  • ArtieToo
    Peaveyologist

  • ArtieToo
    replied
    Re: Ok Artie how do I fix this one?

    Originally posted by dr.barlo
    . . . Because I simply use 10-5 (audio) on my vol.

    B
    And that makes sense. One wouldn't "select" a pickup, and then turn its volume down to zero.

    I'm probably making more of this "volume-interaction" thang, then is necessary. I'm still learning.

    Edit: Which, by the way, just gave me a great idea. Film at eleven.
    ArtieToo
    Peaveyologist
    Last edited by ArtieToo; 07-13-2004, 08:42 AM.

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  • dr.barlo
    Mojo's Minions

  • dr.barlo
    replied
    Re: Ok Artie how do I fix this one?

    Artie, yeah I am talking about the first (in your list) kinda wiring. Well I never bothered to check out the second type. Maybe I should, yet did not have any problems with losing all the output in the middle position when turning the vol of either one to 0. Because I simply use 10-5 (audio) on my vol.

    B

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  • dr.barlo
    Mojo's Minions

  • dr.barlo
    replied
    Re: Ok Artie how do I fix this one?

    Sleep well Kent!

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  • ArtieToo
    Peaveyologist

  • ArtieToo
    replied
    Re: Ok Artie how do I fix this one?

    Ok . . . I see what Kent's saying. It would work, but as he says, not quite the same way as the "other" way.

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  • Kent S.
    Volume Enhanceologist

  • Kent S.
    replied
    Re: Ok Artie how do I fix this one?

    Originally posted by ArtieToo
    It sounds ok, except for one thing: The "50's mod" is really only applicable to a single volume control guitar. (IMHO)

    Here's why: (I'm at work, so can't illustrate this.)

    The 50's mod consists of moving the tone control from the "end" of the pot, to the wiper. This means that you're adding resistance to the tone circuit as you roll-off the volume. But in a dual-volume control guitar, the pups output is connected to the wiper, (ala Les Paul), so the interaction with the tone circuit is completely different. As in - not there.

    So you can approach this in two different ways:

    1. Wire the volume controls "normal", which means that one control will affect both p'ups.

    2. Skip trying to do the 50's mod. (Which I can't see how it would work in a dually anyway.)

    Perhaps Kent will weigh in on this and double check my logic here.

    Edit: Since you're going to be using a "Tele" style switch, this may be do-able. I'll haveta doodle a couple things and check.
    Like I said I'll check in on this tomarrow, but the '50's mod will work with the volumes wired as variable load to source voltage dividers, although the effect won't be as pronounced because the load that that thing put on the pups. If you want to wire them that way you'd run your pups to the wiper and run the cap to the CW lug ... the main thing about the '50s mod is that that cap ( or whatever line goes to the tone control that is) connects to a lug *other than the one the pup connects to*on the volume control . Barlo learn that the wiper is the center lug, the (Clockwise) CW is the one that the wiper connects to when at *10* (righthanded people referred to here) ... you are righthanded right B? Let's not have a go round like we had last time) it's the one on the left when all three lugs are pointing at you, and the (counter-clockwise) ...CCW lug is the one that the wiper connects to when at *0*, ((ground connects here on a volume control)); it's the one one the right (all lugs facing you). Later.
    Kent S.
    Volume Enhanceologist
    Last edited by Kent S.; 07-15-2004, 05:34 AM.

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  • ArtieToo
    Peaveyologist

  • ArtieToo
    replied
    Re: Ok Artie how do I fix this one?

    Ok, what you're describing is fundamentaly like this:

    http://www.seymourduncan.com/website...ne-w-5way.html

    More or less, and in this configuration, the 50's mod works fine. The negative of this wiring is, say you have both pups on, both volumes at 10. If you turn one volume to zero, it will kill both pups.

    This is were my initial confusion with your question comes from. In my early days in this forum, I posted that I believed that to be a mistake in the wiring diagram. Someone, (Robert S., I believe), pointed out to me that LP's we're wired slightly differently, to solve this problem. Like this:

    http://guitarelectronics.zoovy.com/product/WDUHH3T2101

    Here, the center and one end of the pot are reversed so that you don't get this interaction problem. And in that style wiring, the 50's mod doesn't appear to me as though it would be beneficial.

    Does this make any sense?

    Edit: Whenever someone talks about a dual-volume control guitar, I always assume the second wiring scheme. Perhaps I shouldn't.
    ArtieToo
    Peaveyologist
    Last edited by ArtieToo; 07-13-2004, 07:22 AM.

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  • Kent S.
    Volume Enhanceologist

  • Kent S.
    replied
    Re: Ok Artie how do I fix this one?

    I think you two make my head hurt, now go away and leave me alone ... Seriously,I'll check back with you tomarrow, as it's bed time for me ... hang tight guys ...later.

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  • dr.barlo
    Mojo's Minions

  • dr.barlo
    replied
    Re: Ok Artie how do I fix this one?

    And another thing. I already have 50's wiring on my tele, my LPs and a fat/fat 2tone/2vol strat (again 3 way tele switch, and 2 500K pots and a 500/500K dual concentric pot).

    When the bridge pickup is switched, I don't see why the result from my fat/fat strat would be different from that of a LP regarding the 50's wiring. It is just that (instead of being connected directly to the jack) now the bridge pickup is connected to the jack running through the 3 way switch.

    Thanks,

    B

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  • dr.barlo
    Mojo's Minions

  • dr.barlo
    replied
    Re: Ok Artie how do I fix this one?

    On 2vol/2tone guitars 50's wiring makes a lot of difference. I dunno much about electronics, yet like a year ago everybody was going crazy with that on the LPF.

    I dunno those names, wiper etc. Say the all pots are facing eastwards. On a LP the upper lug is grounded. The lower lug gets the pickup, and the center lug gets the wire to the jack. Now modern wiring is to connect the lower lug with one leg of the cap to the center lug of the tone pot (which has the lower lug grounded this time). And 50's wiring is to connect one leg of the cap to the center lug of the vol pot, instead of the lower lug. So hence as the vol pot is turned down, the effect of the tone pot (making it darker) gets less. Hence, as the vol decreases not that much highs are lost.

    No?

    So I don't see why 50's wiring is not working on a LP? In fact, to my knowledge it was LPs (and other 2vol2tone gibsons) that came with 50's wiring instead of guitars with master tone controls. Am I wrong?

    B

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