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Hollow PAF tone - I don't hear it on the SD CD - Help!

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  • Hollow PAF tone - I don't hear it on the SD CD - Help!

    Hi - please help!
    I want to get a good vintage PAF tone in my 95 Les Paul Standard. Acoustically its a thick sounding guitar and because of that I'm thinking of a Seth Lover in the bridge and a 59 in the neck. (The current 490R neck pickup is very muddy sounding even when lowered substantially).
    I like the sound of the Burstbuckers fitted in the current Les Paul Standards as I can hear a hollowness compared to the pickups in my guitar. This seems quite close to the sounds I like e.g. Jimmy Page (particularly Led Zep 2), Paul Kossof on Free Live etc.
    But when I listened to the Seymour Duncan CD (played through a PA system loud) I couldn't hear that hollow sound in the Seth Lover and 59 demos.
    Can people reassure me that these pickups do reproduce that sound

    Any other suggestions people have to help me achieve the tone I'm looking for would be appreciated

    thanks

  • #2
    Re: Hollow PAF tone - I don't hear it on the SD CD - Help!

    i have a 59 set in a bluesbird and i can get a pretty convincing jp tone, but you might want to try the JP set that the custom shop makes. They are waxed a little more and are also a little overwound
    Cleveland Guitars

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    • #3
      Re: Hollow PAF tone - I don't hear it on the SD CD - Help!

      Great tastes there man!

      A 59 set would do quite alright in your 95 standard. So would a set of seths as well. In fact I believe a magnet modded antiquity set is one of the best pickups wound nowadays to get the tones you are looking for.

      Why is the neck of your LP muddy? Too much bass, too much lowermids? Because 59 is kinda bass heavy with the a5 magnet it has. So might not be the best for your needs. But if you are looking for the a5 clarity, well then it is exactly what you wanna get. see?

      B
      FaceBook; SoundCloud; Barlo's Blues; Barlo Digitalized; Soundclick!;

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      • #4
        Re: Hollow PAF tone - I don't hear it on the SD CD - Help!

        The Seths and '59s are both excellent pickup sets for vintage tone in a Les Paul.

        The A5 '59s will probably be closer to Page, the A2 Seths closer to Kossoff, but you won't go wrong with either. A lot depends on your amp - I got great results with '59s through a Marshall JTM60, but the Seths work better with my Jubilee (which is a brighter amp).

        Have you got the stock volume pots in your LP? This might be the cause of your muddy neck pickup. Changing from the stock 300k linear volume pots to 500k audio taper (CTS brand) will give you a bigger brighter sound and more precise control over your volume - useful if you want to go from distorted to clean using the guitar volume in the style of the old masters!
        Simon_F
        Super Moderator
        Last edited by Simon_F; 07-21-2004, 05:46 PM.

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        • #5
          Re: Hollow PAF tone - I don't hear it on the SD CD - Help!

          PG set or Seth's for my taste. I don't like the bigger bottom end of Alnico 5 as opposed to Alinco II.
          Ain't nothin' but a G thang, baby.

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          • #6
            Re: Hollow PAF tone - I don't hear it on the SD CD - Help!

            Just for the fun fact....... Paul Kossoff used Bass Speakers! I think that FREE was the most soulful rock band ever! I also love these tones..... I use a 59n which I love, it has the hollowness you refer to in comparison to the Gibsons. We are talking about Les Pauls right? I just installed a C-5...... great rythm but..... to damn thin in the mids for leads.... what a bummer. Koss lives forever!!!!
            "Play like a Champion"
            PRS DGT, Fender Tele and Strat
            Marshall JTM45 w/ Creambacks
            Fav SD Pups C5, Jazz, PG's, 59's

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            • #7
              Re: Hollow PAF tone - I don't hear it on the SD CD - Help!

              Yes, Simon F is right on about switching to the 500K pots, it can't hurt. Sometimes I really wonder just what the heck is going on at Gibson! 300K pot's give me a break. Is some guy in a suit that doesn't even play guitar deciding what goes into their instruments? Yeah, I don't get it.
              "Play like a Champion"
              PRS DGT, Fender Tele and Strat
              Marshall JTM45 w/ Creambacks
              Fav SD Pups C5, Jazz, PG's, 59's

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              • #8
                Re: Hollow PAF tone - I don't hear it on the SD CD - Help!

                thanks for your replies guys.
                I'm surprised that you suggest the 59 has heavy bottom end. I'd picked that for the neck as I thought it would be brighter than a Seth given its alnico 5 rather than 2, and I've read reviews saying it can be muddy in the neck.

                Simon F we have similar tastes, equipment and ages! I'm playing through the same JTM. I was going to do the Pot mod at the same time as the pickup change. would this alter your view about a Seth in the bridge ( for a Kossoff tone) and a 59 in the neck (primarily to avoid muddiness)

                thanks again

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                • #9
                  Re: Hollow PAF tone - I don't hear it on the SD CD - Help!

                  Ronno -

                  Click on my soundclips down in my signature. If you scroll down a little ways you will see a couple of clips of the Seth Neck and the PG neck. These were done in my Dean Hardtail pictured at left, which has very similar tonal characteristics to a Les Paul...it's a heavy guitar at 9.5 lbs with a mahogany body and carved maple top. The guitar was my JCM 800 2205 with the gain pretty high, SM57 straight into my soundcard.

                  I prefer the Seth of those 2 clips, but I have to say don't overlook the APH II. Now it will not give you those "hollow" paf tones, but it is extremely smooth, transparent and well balanced. Not to bassy, not to trebely...just perfect IMO.

                  However, with that said, I think either a Seth or Antiquity set will be just what you're looking for in your LP.
                  Jeff_H
                  Dean Hardtail Fanologist
                  Last edited by Jeff_H; 07-22-2004, 10:17 AM.
                  My Sound Clips

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                  • #10
                    Re: Hollow PAF tone - I don't hear it on the SD CD - Help!

                    Originally posted by ronno
                    Simon F we have similar tastes, equipment and ages! I'm playing through the same JTM. I was going to do the Pot mod at the same time as the pickup change. would this alter your view about a Seth in the bridge ( for a Kossoff tone) and a 59 in the neck (primarily to avoid muddiness)

                    thanks again
                    If you're going for a Seth in the bridge, why not have a Seth pair?

                    The Seth neck model isn't at all muddy. Actually it's my favourite neck pickup. It's bright and clear, but the A2 magnet gives it a slightly warmer smoother feel than the '59. It has a softer bottom end too, which stops it getting boomy.

                    Which is not to say that the '59 IS boomy , it just has a stronger bottom end. My personal perception is (generally speaking) A5 pickups have more prominent highs and lows with the mids consequently seeming to be pulled back, while A2 pickups have a spongier softer feel to the lows that makes the mids more noticeable, and the highs are smoother.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Hollow PAF tone - I don't hear it on the SD CD - Help!

                      An Antiquity set and 500k pots will nail the hollow, woody PAF tone you are looking for. I have a set in a 95 LP Std and that guitars voice is incredible.
                      www.soundclick.com/failedgrace
                      www.myspace.com/robert_sherman
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                      T4D got a new gig!

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                      • #12
                        Re: Hollow PAF tone - I don't hear it on the SD CD - Help!

                        If you are really adventurous, you could try an A5 Pearly Gates. I didn't like the PGn at all when I first put it in. It was not at all what I was looking for. I had a spare A5 magnet sitting around, so I gave that a shot. I worked wonderfully, and gave the guitar (Warmoth VIP) a nice hollow/woody tone in the neck position.
                        This machine kills fascists

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                        • #13
                          Re: Hollow PAF tone - I don't hear it on the SD CD - Help!

                          I'm sure Robert's spot on about the Antiquities. I've never played them myself, but they are essentially aged Seths, and Seths sound pretty darn good to my ears.

                          It occurred to me since my last post that you may think A2 neck pickups are muddy because of your experience with the stock Gibson 490R. Believe me the Seths are a world away from the 490s! The 490R was muddy in my LP even WITH the 500k pots, the Seth neck pup is clear as a bell.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Hollow PAF tone - I don't hear it on the SD CD - Help!

                            Originally posted by Simon_F

                            It occurred to me since my last post that you may think A2 neck pickups are muddy because of your experience with the stock Gibson 490R. Believe me the Seths are a world away from the 490s! The 490R was muddy in my LP even WITH the 500k pots, the Seth neck pup is clear as a bell.
                            I never knew the 490r was an A2! I think I'll slip in an A5 to see if I can salvage this dud. Otherwise, it looks like I'll be pickup hunting.

                            Oh, and I can vouch that not all A2 neck pickups are muddy. My Alnico 2 Pro isn't muddy at all, and neither was the Pearly Gates (too many mids -- I stuck an A5 in it).

                            The 490r, well, whatever inspired Gibson to squeeze out that thing? The 490t, although not great, isn't too shabby, but the 490r...blech!
                            This machine kills fascists

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                            • #15
                              Re: Hollow PAF tone - I don't hear it on the SD CD - Help!

                              I dropped the 490T back in my LP (set it low to match my '59n) after trying the C5, and added 500K pots (which helped a lot) I think it sounds pretty good. I've got a JB comming in exchange for the C5 :-) I am very anxious to hear the differance between the 490T and the JB. Hoping that it gives me back some of that open air hollowness that we are talking about here, while still giving me those mids that, I guess I like more than I thought I did! Ha! whew! Man! I really dig this fourm! Thanks SD and to everyone involed.
                              "Play like a Champion"
                              PRS DGT, Fender Tele and Strat
                              Marshall JTM45 w/ Creambacks
                              Fav SD Pups C5, Jazz, PG's, 59's

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