Dr Barlo - Timbuckers??

[Seraphial]

Hey Doc, after trawling through the LP forum and then hearing about your axe (nice LP btw) with Timbuckers in it, could you tell me more about them? Sounds? Comparison between 59 and Seth (I have a Seth neck so have a reference point)?

I can't seem to find any info on the guy who winds them - I hear its pretty pricey and that there's a huge wait.

Thanks man.

[Robert S.]

Re: Dr Barlo - Timbuckers??

I hear mixed reviews about the Timbuckers, but mostly it's all good once you get past the price and the wait. The one set that made it into my house (in someone elses guitar-I forget the model) were very nice sounding, but they weren't better than the 59s that I had in one of my LPs at the time.

For the price and wait, I'll still buy SD.

Where is that Doc guy anyways?

[dr.barlo]

Re: Dr Barlo - Timbuckers??

Howdy,

I went to the beach. Sorry to make you wait, but it was worth it! :

Now regarding the topic:

I agree with Robert on 59's being the best deal for the money. But I disagree when it comes to picky PAF tone search. I dunno real PAF's so maybe real PAF's were exactly as 59s. Then again there were tons of PAFs with a very broad range of variety in tone. I love the timbuckers and would prefer the PAFs tim white coped over the ones SD copied to do 59.

AS I said 59's are great, but if you are accustomed to 59 and wanna get more there tim's, ants and rolph's are the ones I think that are better than 59s.

I have been using them timbuckers (I have 2 sets and a custom neck for my 24 fret guitar) for more than 2 years now. Now they are in my 95 LP standard (for more than 2 years) and 03R8, for about a year now.

Among the SD PAF clones, I guess the one closest to it would be a ~8.30K a5 modded PG, and a 7.8-90K a3 modded ant neck.

He is a very cool guy, helping with great insight and details. The funny thing is that he does not wind pickups for a living. He used to wind 2 or 3 sets a week for people from the LPF forum. But now that the word is out, he gets a very long waiting list, and demand=supply (the basic rule economics) made him increase the price on his pickups. Still the used ones are going for twice the money he charges when the waiting period is over.

When I got them he did not have such a long waiting list and a very reasonable price. I think I can get a LP studio for all the timbuckers I have now. Anyways here is the deal.

His bridge pickup sounds like a 59, yet has more uppermids, more honk, and is more open. Is not THIN, but bright! (I thought the voodoo 59 bridge I owned for some time was thin tho!) Tim's is full with harmonics. (Thats why I' say that among the pickups my ears tell me that in all my experimentation with SD PAF clones the closest one was my 8.40K a5 modded pre91 custom shop PGb.) Apart from those points the EQ is pretty similar to that of 59b.

His neck pickup is hotter than SD counter parts and measures like 8.00K. Sounds woody, but still has tons of harmonics. Does not sound that powerful (I mean the 8.00K PGb that I tried in the neck was much stronger). But gets me the best neck tones I possess. Reacts so well to the tone controls. ANd that's why I'd say an a3 ant neck is the one you can get as close as possible with the SD PAF clones. Because an a3 ant is not as soft as the stock ants, and is a tad brigther. But still woody, still possessing all them harmonics.

And the most fabulous position is the middle one. There it simply kills all its competitors. I mean it. The bridge and neck mixes so well. I think I cannot describe it in words, but I can say I think it is the best set I have heard that can add warmth to the bridge pickup, without making the overall result sound coming from the middle position. I know Warren Hayes uses PGs and other SD's but I dare say on my setup the timbuckers get close to his tones with a very high level of accuracy, especially with the added strength from the middle position.

To sum up, if you need a dependable and not that expensive PAF set to use it in gigs, have fun and all, get 59s or PGs. They are excellent pickups, they deliver. Yet if you wanna get more open tone, more 3d harmonics from your guitar, well then timbuckers are really difficult to beat. But so are Jim Rolph's 59's and a5/a3 modded antiquities. The last 3 are different from each other, and which ever one prefers depends on his tastes. See?

B

[dr.barlo]

Re: Dr Barlo - Timbuckers??

Regarding his email:

http://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/member.php?userid=27

[Robert S.]

Re: Dr Barlo - Timbuckers??

If I remember correctly the TBs that were here were alnico v magnet pickups and were wound very close to the specs of the of the SD custom shop JP pickups, which are somewhat hotter than the 59s at 8.7k at the bridge and just over 8k at the neck. Both the TBs, JPs and 59s sound much different than the Antiquities, Seths or other lower wound alnico II PAF knockoffs out there.

PAF specs were all over the place and so are the clones.

I'd never say a bad thing about the TBs as I've only heard one pair in a LP 58 RI and they did sound very good. Investment potential aside though you can get just about anything that you might like from the SD custom shop quicker and cheaper.

I ran away from the LPF a short time after purchasing my 2001 59 RI. Hanging out there can be very informative but also very expensive! They are a great bunch of guys to know though, especially if you are a LP or a Marshall fan.

[dr.barlo]

Re: Dr Barlo - Timbuckers??

That's exactly the reason why I don't hang around there as well. Sometimes read it tho especially in the historics section there are great informative threads, like the recent one about JP's#1 reissue. But as you said, I don't wanna go bankrupt as well.

I also think Tim uses a5's. Am not sure tho, never revealed that info. But the neck sounds like an a2 or a3. In his ealier winds I think he used a5 in the neck as well but then changed it. For all the sets above #119/120 (I have the #119 and 120 ) I think he uses a5/a2 or a5/a3. Am not sure.

Sure stock, ants are quite different, and even after the magnet change they are not dead on. But there might be tons of things regarding that. His pickups have the slug coil not flat to the body. The slug coil has an angle like 10 degrees to the screw bobin which is flat. I did the same thing on one of my a5 modded antiquities to squeeze more highs. The result was great. But did not compare that "unbuckerized"-ant bridge to my tb-bridge in the same guitar. So cannot comment more on that.

On a side note, for some time now I am dying to compare my 8.70K a5 modded antiquity(non-unbuckerized ) against a SDJP bridge. What would you say about that?

B

[Robert S.]

Re: Dr Barlo - Timbuckers??

If you can catch a plane into Detroit I'd be glad to let you check out my JP set. They are in my 59 RI at the moment.

[Seraphial]

Re: Dr Barlo - Timbuckers??

Thanks guys - one more question for Doc

Was your custom wound PG basically a PG+? Or wound differently? Hotter? Lower?

[dr.barlo]

Re: Dr Barlo - Timbuckers??

If you can catch a plane into Detroit I'd be glad to let you check out my JP set. They are in my 59 RI at the moment.

[dr.barlo]

Re: Dr Barlo - Timbuckers??

Thanks guys - one more question for Doc

Was your custom wound PG basically a PG+? Or wound differently? Hotter? Lower?

It is a regular PG, with long legs and no logo. I got it in 91, and the initial owner got it from the SD custom shop in late 80's, because (I suppose) PG's were not a part of the regular production line back in those days. I don't know the specific dates, but PG was added to the SD pickup rooster like early 90's no?

B