Which is a warmer pickup: Duncan CC or Rio BBQ?

[Mac-P]

Re: Which is a warmer pickup: Duncan CC or Rio BBQ?

Mac-P, swapping the magnet is not that difficult. If you like your JB so much, and need a little more low-mids, less in your face bass, and less uppermids, I would suggest getting some a4's if you can find them, and a3's, and trying that JB of yours with those magnets.

A jump from JB to CC would be quite a change.

Hey Doc (it's so much fun to say that),

Yea, I remember that whole BBQ/C5 thing way back when.

As far as changing my JB, I love the sound of this JB and would never f*ck with it. It is a vintage pre-logo JB from the 80's. First pickup I ever bought. It sounds amazing. Just looking for an even bigger, rounder tone. And really just looking for a stock pickup that I don't have to alter. I need to pop it in there and play. Not into experimenting with different magnet types unless it becomes crucial.

What is so much different between a JB and CC? How would you describe it? Also, people are still mentioning the C5 and BBQ in the same breath. Are they similar? Because to my ears, the C5 (and I've heard many of them) is anything but big sounding. Maybe with no band, but in a band mix that lack of mids leaves treble and bass. And the bass is coverd up by the bass player, leaving a thin sort of Kirk Hammet tone. Bla. Not my thing.


So we are clear on my personal definition of "big": Lots of midrange. Nice healthy lower midrange, and a clear vocal like mid and upper midrange. Think a saxophone or a human voice. Lots of rich harmonic mid content. Clarity should come from the upper midrange and not the treble. A "BIG" sounding pickup sounds thick and prominant in the mix with a BAND. Single notes should be WIDE and vocal sounding. Take a solo after the tenor sax player. How is your tone? THAT is what big is about to me.

So, is the BBQ "big" by that definition? The C5 definitely is NOT. Very small indeed. Not vocal at all.

Mac, I really think warmer and thicker in the bridge is the Rio BBQ. I say try it....you might just find your pickup.

You say you hated the C-5....but that was in an SG? I think it balanced a million times better in a Les Paul because of the huge mids of most Pauls.

But, I like you....tend to lean toward a pickup with more mids. That is a big reason I want to try the Custom. Many people say the Custom is like the JB but with less highs, and more lower mids. Also I hear it is warmer than the JB and C-5. We'll see.

What didn't you like about the Custom?

Doc,

Any thoughts in my case? I do hear ya on the BBQ. The one thing I miss is the tight low end. Remember I am playing a very heavy style but I do need a nice thick clean in the bridge. My next test is the C-5 in my Les Paul. This is not a heavy LP....more like 8 lbs and very lively in tone. I am hoping it has enough mids to fill out the C-5.

You have me intrigued over the C-3.

And as far as a C5 being better in a Les Paul, well, that may be true, but the pickup STILL is scooping out those mids. I have heard plenty of Les Pauls where the bridge tone is squeeky and small.

And this is just taste mid you. Many people LOVE the C5. Not I. For what I like in a guitar sound, I can't imagine it sounding good to my ears in any guitar.


As far as the Custom, I had one in this same SG. The JB has MUCH more mid content and is much warmer (and bigger) than the custom. The custom has more highs and is much crunchier and "harder" sounding. Much brighter.

The ceramic magnet in the Custom is NOT going to sound as sweet as the JB. The JB is also "bigger" in my book. Single notes are wider with less treble than the Custom. I liked the Custom more than the C5 (much more), but the JB is the biggest tone of the 3 to these ears.

That's why I am currently interested in either the CC or BBQ. Looking for the w-i-d-e-s-t , thickest, warmest pickup with the most vocal sound on single notes. Think Saxophone.

[papersoul]

Re: Which is a warmer pickup: Duncan CC or Rio BBQ?

Mac buddy.....to me ears, you are describing the BBQ perfectly. Keep in mind I have yet to hear the CC. To me the BBQ is ridiculously big in a band mix and notes are wide like the JB but everything sounds warmer and deeper. Doc, may greatly disagree but again I have no experience with the CC in my guitars. I have heard it briefly in a friends Ibanez and it sounded great. I had compared it to a JB in my Hamer. Hard to say which is better.

The thing that keeps me from the CC is that a friend tried it in his Les Paul and said it sounded too 80s, so he went back to the C-5. To me the BBQ sounds thicker and meatier than the C-5.

One pickup you might want to consider as I is the Wagner Fillmore. Some say the best HB you can buy.

Mac, I should say I am right in line with your thinking and I think you and I like the same type of p'ups. The one thing I need is a tight bottom. Take all that you said you like in a pickup and add a tight bottom and SIGN ME UP!
That is what people are saying about the Fillmore. The BBQ bottom is rather round.

Keep in mind my LP is very lively and deep sounding, but rather light at 8 lbs. I am happy it is so lively and clear but I too want a thick, wide, and warm pickup to compliment it.

[papersoul]

Re: Which is a warmer pickup: Duncan CC or Rio BBQ?

Another highly recomended pickup is the Air Zone

and another is the Gibson Angus humbucker. Oh, the choices.

[Mac-P]

Re: Which is a warmer pickup: Duncan CC or Rio BBQ?

Another highly recomended pickup is the Air Zone

and another is the Gibson Angus humbucker. Oh, the choices.

I have an Air Zone and a DiMarzio Breed Bridge as well. Both are amazing pickups.

As a matter of fact, the Breed bridge is the pickup in the bridge position of the SG in my picture to the left there (Pearly Gates neck).

Both the Breed and Air Zone are warm, clear, and beautiful sounding. I have nothing but good things to say about both pickups. The best two humbuckers DiMarzio makes IMHO.

This other SG I am talking about right now has a Duncan '59 neck and JB bridge. I want to keep this guitar "non-DiMarzio". I would have said keep the guitar "Duncan-only", but the Rio Grande is in consideration, so.......

Nothing against the DiMarzios. I was just interested in the two pickups that I haven't tried yet: the Rio BBQ and Duncan CC.

Any more input?

[papersoul]

Re: Which is a warmer pickup: Duncan CC or Rio BBQ?

Have you thought about the Fillmore?? I hear amazing things about it.

getting back to the Air Zone. Would you say it is as warm as the JB? Good for clean, rhythm, and lead? Big tone? I hear negative things about Dimarzio and I'd like to get past that. Would it work in a lively sounding LP?

[AmpliFIRE]

Re: Which is a warmer pickup: Duncan CC or Rio BBQ?

So is the Angus big and full?? I am curious about that one for sure.

I did notice a huge difference when I replaced all my JBs with Rio BBQs. The tone got bigger, fuller, thicker, richer, with more body for sure. I also agree with Mac that less highs in the bridge can be a good thing.

My buddy just started using the Rio BBQ and he also appreciates that the Rio lacks highs......as this really compliments most modern amps which to me sound too bright! The BBQ has plenty of mids and tons of low end. Some say the BBQ has lots of high mids like the JB, but less (smoother) highs and more bass.

One pickup I have to try in my LP is the C-5 and Custom. The C-5 is going in this week.

My thing is that I try to fill up a lot of sound since I am the primary guitarist in our band. So far, the BBQ has been it.

Couldn't agree with you more! I still love the JB but the BBQ is a much thicker sounding pup. I've tried a C5 in an Agile LP copy and didn't care for it...too scopped with not much character IMO. I have the BBQ in my 01' LP Std. and I just ordered one for my Axis. I'll be sure to report back here once it's installed.

[Mac-P]

Re: Which is a warmer pickup: Duncan CC or Rio BBQ?

Have you thought about the Fillmore?? I hear amazing things about it.

getting back to the Air Zone. Would you say it is as warm as the JB? Good for clean, rhythm, and lead? Big tone? I hear negative things about Dimarzio and I'd like to get past that. Would it work in a lively sounding LP?

Don't believe all the negative crap about DiMarzio. They are a great company that makes some GREAT pickups. They also make some pups that I don't like, as Duncan does.

The Air Zone is a GREAT pickup. Both it and the Breed bridge have a TAD less treble than the JB and both have more bass. The Breed has a bit more mids than the Air Zone - about the same as the JB. The JB's mids are a bit higher (in register) than the Breed, but not much.

The Air Zone is the clearest of the three. It sounds a bit less "cranked" than either the JB or Breed. But that is not to say that it is not powerful. It is VERY powerful while not being a distortion pickup. An all around great pickup. Power and clarity. And lots of warmth.

If someone were trying to warm up a cold bridge position, that could be the answer in a nutshell. And Duncan doesn't really make an equivalent. The closest I have tried is the JB.

Still interested in hearing comments on that CC and Rio BBQ though........

Also still concerned about al the comparasins between the BBQ and the C5. Seems to me that they are opposites (one is scooped to death, one has thick mids). Whey are people comparing them?

[dr.barlo]

Re: Which is a warmer pickup: Duncan CC or Rio BBQ?

Doc,

Any thoughts in my case? I do hear ya on the BBQ. The one thing I miss is the tight low end. Remember I am playing a very heavy style but I do need a nice thick clean in the bridge. My next test is the C-5 in my Les Paul. This is not a heavy LP....more like 8 lbs and very lively in tone. I am hoping it has enough mids to fill out the C-5.

You have me intrigued over the C-3.

Hey Rich,

As I have told you before, and now that you seem to be quite hesistant to let your A5 BB go, I would say try the C5 in your LP. If it does the trick fine. You already have Robert_S's great tricks to get the best (mids) out of a C5. And in your guitar, it might work. It is all about matching the wood with a pickup that simple basically.

I have some of the boutique pickups that get discussed in the LPF, 2 sets of Timbuckers (they RULE) one set of Rolph's 59's and one set (the other is on the way, from John at BlackRose) of a5/a3 modded ants. While I was trying them in my 95LP standard, a great guitar, but it is very heavy and not balanced (that is I cannot play it sitting, it just does not stay balanced damn!!!) the winner was the timbuckers. Yet on another LP that I let go (a 01 R8 which did not sound as good as my 95LP standard ) the clear winner was the rolphs. So you see it is all about matching the wood with pickups. If you check my wood test over in the tips and clips I hope you would agree that the difference the wood makes (the pickups etc are all the same) is almost the same difference a2 vs a5 makes. Thus, it is not healthy to compare pickups in different guitars. The comparison has to be in the very same wood.

So check it out, and don't shy away from doing the soldering work yourself. What the heck, the worst case scenario is that you could alwasy get it fixed by a luthier!

Give the c5 in your LP sometime, let your own ears decide. Then if you wanna fatten your considerably, then change the a5 to an a2. If it not that much, A3. I am gonna be checking the a4's soon, and they are supposed to be basically a C5 but a little more similar to the c3.

Take care,

B

[dr.barlo]

Re: Which is a warmer pickup: Duncan CC or Rio BBQ?

And another thing. Yes CC is 80's, that's why I like it! It is different, not some version of a great a5 PAF pickup. Because then what's wrong sticking with A5 PAF clones in the bridge, a5 modded hot ant bridges are really the ****!

BTW I really did not mean any offense, just sharing what I thought after reading that.

B

[Mac-P]

Re: Which is a warmer pickup: Duncan CC or Rio BBQ?

And another thing. Yes CC is 80's, that's why I like it! It is different, not some version of a great a5 PAF pickup. Because then what's wrong sticking with A5 PAF clones in the bridge, a5 modded hot ant bridges are really the ****!

BTW I really did not mean any offense, just sharing what I thought after reading that.

B

I would think that the CC is 80s' only if you used the same sort of signal processing like in the 80's (Marshall JCM 800 -ish type distortion & crunch).

What else could make it sound 80's -ish?

[dr.barlo]

Re: Which is a warmer pickup: Duncan CC or Rio BBQ?

Mac-P,

Well BBq is not like c5, so in that regard they do have a point. It resembles JB more than it does a C5, my humble opinion. It is like a JB, and it is not more open (opener ) as well, something to be expected due to the resistance values. But I guess there are other things/differences involved. So indeed if you love your JB so much (ok ok don't touch it, don't change the magnet ) and hate the c5 in the SG, BBQ would not be a bad choice.

But beware, BBQ has TONS of uppermids (relatively more than JB) which become annoying. I mean I loved this pickup for a long time, tried everything I can do wash away the uppermids. Just could not. It is dark, lots of uppermids, maybe relatively JB level lower-mids and bass. If you wanna get angus' early 90's tone all the time, fine it delivers. But if you wanna have a smoother tone, better suited for cleans, well in that case BBQ has to go. It is muddy and harsh at the same time with the same settings C5 sounds crisp clear (which is also annoying but anyway! )

About the definition of BIG. I honestly think your definition does indeed coincide with mine. Thus, I would not say BBQ is bigger than CC. CC has a lot of lowermids, really great singing tone. And that tonechart thing I think is misleading, it does not relatively have THAT much mids. If its mids were to be like that of a5 buckers, it would be an unbearable pickup. But it is not. They are soft as opposed to be focused. They are spongy (especially the bass). But they don't sound excessively blur, or too midheavy. Has a great smooth clean tone, can do highs very well, and its uppermids are not annoying at all. And since you hated your C5, I guess CC is the way to go. At least this would be what I would do if I were in your shoes.

BTW did you check my BBQ/Texas and CC/PGn threads in the tips clips section. You can hear them out.

Good Luck,

B

[papersoul]

Re: Which is a warmer pickup: Duncan CC or Rio BBQ?

I really think I will end up one of these p'ups in my LP standard....Fillmore, BBQ, Air Zone, or CC. I have also heard the Air Zone is modern sounding which is interesting. I may have to just order the Fillmore and sell if I hate it.

Mac, quite a few people have recomended the Air Zone to me. All I am saying is that as much as I like the JB......I like the BBQ that much more.

[papersoul]

Re: Which is a warmer pickup: Duncan CC or Rio BBQ?

Maybe we all just hear things differently because I find the BBQ to sound much thicker than the JB. Wouldn't the JB be thicker with lower mids? Plus, I don't seem to find the BBQ harsh at all and I love it's clean tone because the cleans are so fat and thick.....no ice pick topnes to be found. These are the big reasons I stuck it out with the BBQ.

Doc, I understand what you say concerning finding the right pickup for the guitar. Would you suggest I just start trying p'ups? I can't afford to just go out and buy ten pickups, LOL! Maybe order one or two from ebay and send back the one I dislike, and then buy another off ebay......basically continue till I nail it?! I don't know if I'd be able to swap magnets, nor want to do that.
I may just take a chance and order the Fillmore and if it fails to work....I begin my journey through trial and error on ebay. LOL!


One thing that has always intrigued me is how Gearjoneser is known for saying how the C-5 seems to work in most mahogany/maple topped guitars.....kind of like a sure thing.

[Fatty]

Re: Which is a warmer pickup: Duncan CC or Rio BBQ?

Wow.. this thread is an interesting, infomative read. I'm going to have to try out the CC after reading the descriptions on here.

[papersoul]

Re: Which is a warmer pickup: Duncan CC or Rio BBQ?

I guess, I find myself wanting to find the pickup that will give me the biggest sound ot tone in the mix. You know, really fill in all the cracks and just have a huge tone at rehearsal and gigs. Thus far, the Rio BBQ has done it.