Volume dropoff between Cool Rails and Vintage Rails?

[Ubehebe]

Help!

I'm about ready to place the order, but I can't make up my mind if I should go CR-VR-CR or CR-CR-CR.

Anyone out there have cool rails and vintage rails in the same guitar?

I have two concerns:

1. Will there be a substantial volume dropoff when I switch from the bridge CR by itself to the middle VR by itself? (I see from the pup chart that there is a difference in output between the CR and VR, but I don't know how this translates in the real world. Dramatic or not an issue?)

2. Will I even be able to tell the difference in tone between the CR and VR? (Ideally, I'd like to get a PAF-ish sound from the CRs, and get a Stratish single-coil ballpark emulation from the VR. From what I've read here, it's possible.)

The pups are going in a Burns Marquee, a modern-day copy of the Burns Marvin from the '60s. If you're unfamiliar with them, they're like a big beefy strat with a cool retro Mersey Beat look. I like the Marquee so much that I just bought a second one. The first one, I'm keeping stock, since it is a 1999, one of the first years of production. The second one, I'm going to customize pup wise, pick guard and paint too.

The forum archives have been an INCREDIBLE help in figuring out what pup sounds like what. I just couldn't find much about the relative output of the VRs and CRs in past discussions.

Thanks for any help you can give.

[ArtieToo]

Re: Volume dropoff between Cool Rails and Vintage Rails?

Welcome to the forum. Here's a little "bump" for Travis.
He's got a nice 'rails' equipped Strat.

[gripweed]

Re: Volume dropoff between Cool Rails and Vintage Rails?

I had a cool rails in the bridge of my strat for a while. I took it out because it wasn't what I was looking for but it is a very nice pickup. I thought it sounded very much like a vintage humbucker and yes close to a PAF. YMMV.

I've never cared much for the hot rails so I can't comment on if they will deliver what you want.

[Xeromus]

Re: Volume dropoff between Cool Rails and Vintage Rails?

go with the cr, vr, cr combo, or even cr, vr, hr if you want a hotter bridge pickup. The cool rails are similar to a '59, but not the same, they are still punchy like single coils. The cool rails is one of my favorite pickups by Duncan. It's just too awesome. The vintage rails will get rid of hum and still sound like a single coil, not just like a true one, but very good. There won't be a huge dropoff in volume from switching from cr to vr, since the cr isn't "high output" to begin with, but it's super smooth. Go a step further and put in a toggle or push-pull switch for the cool rails to split them to singles and you'll get nice in between tones with the vintage rails. My favorite combination in a strat is cool rails, cool rails, then a hot humbucker like a distortion or hot rails. Then I wire them to split with a switch so I get single coil mode from them all to get vintage strat sounds. It totally rocks.

[Ubehebe]

Re: Volume dropoff between Cool Rails and Vintage Rails?

Hey Xeromus

Thanks for the reply. The info is just what I'm looking for.

Looks like it'll probably be CR-VR-CR

>>>>The cool rails are similar to a '59 . . .

I considered the 59 and/or the JB jr., but the string spacing on the Marquee may be just slightly different than a Strat on the middle and neck pups, so I thought the rails would remove any chance of the strings not aligning with the pole pieces. Plus, of course, I keep reading how awesome the cool rails sound.

I also do a lot of string bending. I read in this forum that strings can lose some volume if they they are bent away from the pole pieces on Strat-size humbuckers, another reason for sticking with the rails.

>>>>>>>>>>Go a step further and put in a toggle or push-pull
>>>>>>>>>>switch for the cool rails to split them to singles and
>>>>>>>>>>you'll get nice in between tones with the vintage rails.

Thanks for the confirmation on splitting. I was thinking of doing exactly that but didn't want to bog down the first post with a bunch of "what-ifs." The Burns has a push-pull on the second tone knob, so the five-position switch becomes in effect a 10 position. I could split them there (I think) or add a couple mini switches and keep the 10-position with its selection of parallel and series combos.

Have you or anyone else around here had problems with the strings catching and whacking into the cool rails? I've heard rumors, but haven't read anything definitive.

Thanks again.

Ubehebe
______________

2004 Burns Marquee, soon to be customized with Seymour Duncan Cool Rails, nu paint and custom pickguard
1999 Burns Marquee, stock
2001 Martin D-15 acoustic
1985 Rick 620/12
1984 Fender Jazz bass
1968 LP gold top with original P-90s, as delivered
1966 Hagstrom Futurama bass, as delivered

[MikeS]

Re: Volume dropoff between Cool Rails and Vintage Rails?

I've got a CR-VR-Demon in my strat copy. I can't speak to the bridge/middle relationship, but I can help with the neck/middle. I've got neck versions of the CR and VR. I have noticed a slight volume drop off between the two postions, but it usually works out to my benefit (I typically look for a slgihtly backed off tone from the middle position). The lead tones from the neck CR are just too good. Very smooth, not too dark, not to bright = just right. Under gain the CRn simply sings and right now is my favorite neck tone.

The VRn in the middle has a great classic single coil tone with no hum. Like xeromus said, it's not 100% 50s single coil, but it's a damn close match. Clean or under gain, the pickup sounds great. I find that it's not quite as well suited for lead work as the CRn (might be a tiny bit less articulate, but keep in mind I'm talking about a different pickup in a different position).

The clencher for me was the notch position. using CR-VR notch position is a treat. It still retains some of that vintage vibe (read: strat quack) and is a very clean combo. I love this position clean or with a very mild breakup.

As for the clearance issues you asked about, I've never had any problems with string/rail contact. Never had any trouble with string pole piece contact for that matter, either. That's a setup issue - so long as you're not raising the pickups too much you'll be fine.