Pickup poles distance and alignment

[rdm_chem]

Maybe I'm posting a question that had been discussed here before, but I really could not find a good answer for my doubts, yet, so I hope you guys can help me to calm down my concerns. I had also looked other discussions forums, without success.

To better understand my comment, please refer to the attached figures (PDF file / drawings - all in scale), OK?

View attachment ELPS.pdf



I own an Epi Les Paul Std (acquired in April 2014), and I recently noticed that my pickup poles (in yellow in the figure) don't perfectly align with the strings. In the bridge, the misalignment is mild towards to first (E) string. In the neck, this misalignment is more noticeable and the first (E) string barely cross the tip of the last pole. In general, in both bridge and neck, there is some level of misalignment, as you will be able to check in the figure. I'm a not very experienced guitar player, so I cannot say if this situation has a real influence in the sound that is generated by the guitar.

The distance between strings in the bridge is standard, it means, the distance between the middle of the 6th string until the middle of the 1st string is 50mm (1.969").

I'm evaluating two brands of replacement pickups for both bridge and neck: Seymour Duncan and DiMarzio. In both cases, the use of their standard spaced pickups would change the picture. The misalignment in the bridge would have a visually more noticeable, and in the neck it seems visually a little better, but overall, it doesn't solve the problem in any way.

Maybe, I can move the bridge pickup a little bit towards the 6th (E) string, what seems to be a good way to achieve an almost perfect alignment between strings and poles.

On the other hand, as we know, the string spacing narrows from the bridge towards the neck, and above the pickup (in the neck), the strings distance is reduced (at least in my guitar) from 50mm (1.969") to 47mm (1.850").

Here is my problem! No matter what I do, the poles in the neck pickup will never be perfectly aligned with the strings:

* Strings in my guitar: 47mm (1.850") / 5 = 9.4mm (0.37") distance between the strings.
* SD pickup: 49mm (1.93") / 5 = 9.8mm (0.386") distance between the strings.
* DiMarzio pickup: 48.64mm (1.915") / 5 = 9.73mm (0.383") distance between the strings.

So, what's the "miracle" to make the poles to match the strings in the neck, if no matter what I do, the smaller distance of the strings close to the neck will always cause some misalignment?

If I could rotate approximately 20 degrees the neck pickup, the poles (as in the bridge of a Fender Strato), it would be perfectly aligned, but of course it is not an option.

I went to a Sam Ash store and checked several other Les Pauls ... Some of them presents the same problem (including expensive Gibsons ...), and some of them are perfectly aligned in the neck.

Are there pickups for the neck with reduced distance (e.g. 9.4mm/0.37") between the poles to address this difference? If affirmative, could you please share the brands and models you know?

Have you any experience to share on how to solve this situation?

This issue is really disturbing me ... Hopefully some of you have some good piece of information about it.

Thank you a lot for your help and attention.

 

[VinceT]

Re: Pickup poles distance and alignment

Hey, the image isn't showing for me - can you do it as a JPG?


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[Zhangliqun]

Re: Pickup poles distance and alignment

Maybe the saddles in the bridge had the slots cut slightly off toward the bass side.

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Pickup poles distance and alignment

Don't worry about it; they don't need to line up that well for any truly important reason. Things like this have been the case for many generations of guitar playing, and somehow some of the most incredible sounds ever were made with such flawed stuff. The only reason they really need to line up is to cure ones aesthetic obsessiveness.

 

[rdm_chem]

Re: Pickup poles distance and alignment

Dear ItsaBass,

Thank you for your reply. Reading other forums I could find some people saying that it will work the way it is, but as distant as the string is from the pole piece center, fewer will the collected signal. One guy (I think at MyLesPaul.com) gave a nice comparison: The pole piece works like a lit lantern: What is directly in front of it will be very visible. What is towards the sides will get some light, but not as much as what id directly ahead. In the case of the pickup poles, the strings 1 (E), 2 (B) and 3(G) which are far from the center of the pole pieces are probably sending a reduced signal.

I'm not sure if I could make myself clear. Do you think this explanation makes sense?

I try not to be "Aesthetic obsessiveness", but more "Technically obsessive" .

 

[rdm_chem]

Re: Pickup poles distance and alignment

Dear VinceT,

Thank you for your reply. Please have the JPG files attached.

 

[AlexR]

Re: Pickup poles distance and alignment

The magnetic field is nowhere so point oriented as you think. Have you ever bent a string and had the sound drop away and then back again as you move away from centred over a pole......nope, doesn't happen. The field is more like the diagram below.....even in that representation unless you have the pickup practically touching the strings there is no lack of field laterally.

This has been discussed many times here.
Pole misalignment is simply an OCD trigger......nothing else.

 

[rdm_chem]

Re: Pickup poles distance and alignment

Dear AlexR, thank you for sharing this figure. It is very clear.

It helped me with my possible OCD .

 

[VinceT]

Re: Pickup poles distance and alignment

I think AlexR has nailed it. Just play and enjoy!


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[Zhangliqun]

Re: Pickup poles distance and alignment

The magnetic field is nowhere so point oriented as you think. Have you ever bent a string and had the sound drop away and then back again as you move away from centred over a pole......nope, doesn't happen. The field is more like the diagram below.....even in that representation unless you have the pickup practically touching the strings there is no lack of field laterally.

This has been discussed many times here.
Pole misalignment is simply an OCD trigger......nothing else.

I have heard drop-out on string bends before, many times, particularly on the high E when it's lined up toward the inside of the screw as in the OP's diagrams. No, the strings do NOT have to be lined up dead-center but it's better to have the high strings toward the outside than inside as in said diagrams. You WILL get drop out on string bends there, whereas with the string toward the outside of the screw, no drop-out at all on a bend.

 

[Shooter.556]

Re: Pickup poles distance and alignment

EVH never knew what F spacing was.. He just put in a humbucker a ripped.. I don't think it's that important..

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: Pickup poles distance and alignment

Do you notice an audible drop out? If not, don't worry about it.

 

[BriGuy1968]

Re: Pickup poles distance and alignment

I'm gonna +1 for the comments telling you that it doesn't matter... at least soundwise. If it's a visual OCD issue for you, you may want to correct it just for your own sanity, but just know that it isn't hurting you one bit in terms of picking up string vibration.

Check out the string alignment on the bridge in this closeup of my '85 Westone Spectrum LX, which I use for my avatar pic. I have ZERO issues with sound loss, even though the alignment is noticeably off on the treble side of the guitar:


My advice: play the hell out of it and don't (forgive the pun) fret the small stuff!

 

[dominus]

Re: Pickup poles distance and alignment

No one read the entire first post. He hasn't bought replacements yet.

For the bridge pickup, get either an F-Spaced Dimarzio or a TB-Spaced Duncan. That will fix the string spacing on the bridge.

 

[BriGuy1968]

Re: Pickup poles distance and alignment

No one read the entire first post. He hasn't bought replacements yet.

For the bridge pickup, get either an F-Spaced Dimarzio or a TB-Spaced Duncan. That will fix the string spacing on the bridge.

I've never looked that closely into the TB-spaced Duncans... mostly because I learned about them AFTER I had already purchased pickups, but aren't they spaced with the greater distance between the poles in order to accommodate the wider string spacing from a trem? According to his pics, it appears that he's asking for something with LESS distance between the poles in order to get them to line up. If the TB-spaced pups are wider, it seems that it would create more disparity rather than bringing the strings and poles into line.

But then too, I mean it, I never looked into them that closely... so correct me if I'm wrong!

 

[dominus]

Re: Pickup poles distance and alignment

If it's a 2014 Epiphone, it's going to have a wider bridge.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Pickup poles distance and alignment

I have never noticed a problem sound-wise, bent strings or not, but you can always just get some sort of rail-based pickup, or covers with no screws showing through. But 1000's of notes have been recorded on misaligned pole-pieces. I wonder though, if Gibson and Epiphone are making their own pickups for their own guitars, you'd think they could get them to align better.

 

[BriGuy1968]

Re: Pickup poles distance and alignment

If it's a 2014 Epiphone, it's going to have a wider bridge.

That doesn't solve the issue of his needing less space between poles. His bridge is sitting at an angle, effectively reducing the spacing "straight" to the pups. The wider TB or F humbuckers will only magnify the issue.


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[dominus]

Re: Pickup poles distance and alignment

That doesn't solve the issue of his needing less space between poles. His bridge is sitting at an angle, effectively reducing the spacing "straight" to the pups. The wider TB or F humbuckers will only magnify the issue.

I'm not putting too much trust into those diagrams.

 

[Hank-]

Re: Pickup poles distance and alignment

I'm gonna +1 for the comments telling you that it doesn't matter... at least soundwise. If it's a visual OCD issue for you, you may want to correct it just for your own sanity, but just know that it isn't hurting you one bit in terms of picking up string vibration.

Check out the string alignment on the bridge in this closeup of my '85 Westone Spectrum LX, which I use for my avatar pic. I have ZERO issues with sound loss, even though the alignment is noticeably off on the treble side of the guitar:
View attachment 70710

My advice: play the hell out of it and don't (forgive the pun) fret the small stuff!

On that bridge pickup if you play a downstroke quite hard/heavy on the high e string, you should hear a drop in string signal strength compared to when you play an upstroke with same strong attack. It used to happen with a dimarzio super d that i had alligned in that exact way, except the polepices on there were much smaller than duncans here. Height adjustments didn't have much effect either for me. Though for everyone YMMV

Looking at the simulation, it appears to be a Epi quality control issue to have the low strings allign almost perfectly but to have the high strings that far off. My 59n alligns perfectly in my trem equipped korean PRS, although my sh14 in the bridge is slightly off but not like the simulation or pic above, i guess the trem version would allign perfectly for me.

Adding a bit of foam in the high strings side cavity area might help to bring the high strings a little above the poles by pushing the pickup towards the left side.