Screw polepieces vs slug polepieces - tonal different

CarlosG

Member
Hi!
I wonder that how is difference between humbucker who has classic screw/slug polepieces, from humbucker who has screw/screw polepieces?
My friend is guitar pickup constructor. I love sound humbucker, which he screated. Is classical humbucker screw/slug polepieces. He can do the same pickup to me with screw/screw polepieces. What will be the difference in sound? Will it be big or subtle?
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Re: Screw polepieces vs slug polepieces - tonal different

The mass and shape of the magnetic extensions (pole and slug) affect how the magnetic field is shaped. This will have a difference to tone.
How much will depend on the wind, magnet and physical shape/length of the screws. But in general the proprietor of Zhangbucker pickups has said to me the double screws will sound slightly less full than a screw/slug, with more chime.
 
Re: Screw polepieces vs slug polepieces - tonal different

Dual rows of screws will soften the attack and round out the overall tone ever-so-slightly.

Not sure why Zhang claims they'll be less full. Generally speaking, that's not true.
 
Re: Screw polepieces vs slug polepieces - tonal different

This is from Suhr himself, comparing the SS* vs DS* pickups:

"The DS, or double screw, series of pickups feature two rows of adjustable screw pole pieces. When compared to their SS (single screw) counterparts, the DS pickups have a natural roll off on the top end, making them richer, smoother, and more modern sounding."
 
Re: Screw polepieces vs slug polepieces - tonal different

I want to point out that the magnetic field is stronger above slugs compared to fillister screws. I'm assuming Zhang might have been referring to the fact that slugs deliver a stronger signal and response, but "fullness" is a tricky word to use here.

Just so you know I'm not talking out my backside, I have experience with several traditional vs double-screw incarnations of the same pickup, including the Suhr DSH+/SSH+, SIN Axis pickups, JB/Holdsworth, SD Custom Shop pickups, etc. In fact, I'm a bit of a freak when it comes to pickups with dual adjustable rows, not sure why. Even had the covered Gibson 498T and 490R, which actually had dual slug rows to fit under the EMG-style cover, to directly compare with the regular set at one point.

Dual rows of screws adds a little focus, smooths out the highs just a bit and helps soften the overall response. You typically don't lose any of the good parts of a design unless you need that little extra bite/zing to your sound :)
 
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Re: Screw polepieces vs slug polepieces - tonal different

Screws are a little grittier not rounder masta c. Triple shot a humbucker and you'll hear.
 
Re: Screw polepieces vs slug polepieces - tonal different

I have a double screw 59/Custom Hybrid. I dig it...it doesn't sound as 'hard' as a normal one, just a bit squishier. Plus, hey, it looks cool.
 
Screw polepieces vs slug polepieces - tonal different

The screws are generally longer, even though they have a smaller diameter. The extra length does two things; it gives them a higher inductance (more iron) which warms up the tone slightly. And the extra length means the magnetic field is now looping in the back as well as the front, since the screw is extending past the magnet.

These two things tends to soften the tone.

I like to cut the screws shorter so they aren’t much longer than the slugs. This gives the pickup a little more bite.

The humbuckers I make either have double slugs or blades. No screws.


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Re: Screw polepieces vs slug polepieces - tonal different

This may be too specific, but I was reading a bunch of Black Winter threads, and saw some information about the "Blackened" version. That one uses a double row of hex screws, which I'm sure is different than even fillisters. Anyway, regarding the difference between the two, Keith Merrow was quoted as saying that tonally, the Blackened wasn't much different, but that it had a sharper pick attack. (I ended up with a Blackened bridge model, kinda by mistake, but it does sound great in my KM-6 Mk II. However, I don't have a standard BW to compare.)
 
Re: Screw polepieces vs slug polepieces - tonal different

I wonder about hex/slug configuration. Or hex/rail.
 
Re: Screw polepieces vs slug polepieces - tonal different

The humbuckers I make either have double slugs or blades. No screws.


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Have you found there to be an ideal radius or radius-range (at the bridge of course) that is optimal for pickups that are essentially locked-flat?

Blades and double-slugs being non-adjustable and mostly flat (with a few exceptions) have always (IMO) seemed to achieve their best string-to-string balance when in guitars that have a bridge radius in the 14-18" range.

For instance I had an X2N under a 12" radius bridge and it always seemed to be "hotter" on the outside strings than the middles. If I adjusted the overall height to sound best for the inside strings then the outside strings were slightly too close to have the same "dynamic-response".
Subtle difference for sure, and not something everyone would even notice, but it always bugged me a little and since then I only use flat pups for higher radius guitars.
 
Re: Screw polepieces vs slug polepieces - tonal different

Have you found there to be an ideal radius or radius-range (at the bridge of course) that is optimal for pickups that are essentially locked-flat?

Blades and double-slugs being non-adjustable and mostly flat (with a few exceptions) have always (IMO) seemed to achieve their best string-to-string balance when in guitars that have a bridge radius in the 14-18" range.

For instance I had an X2N under a 12" radius bridge and it always seemed to be "hotter" on the outside strings than the middles. If I adjusted the overall height to sound best for the inside strings then the outside strings were slightly too close to have the same "dynamic-response".
Subtle difference for sure, and not something everyone would even notice, but it always bugged me a little and since then I only use flat pups for higher radius guitars.

I haven’t noticed any string balance issues. And if you angle the pickup farther away on the bass side, it takes care of those strings being too loud.

I’ve never found the screws on a humbucker all that effective. Seth Lover didn’t even want adjustable poles. Just a closed metal cover.


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Re: Screw polepieces vs slug polepieces - tonal different

With pickups I've made, I've found the slug side to have more dominant upper mids compared to the screw side. With that said, I've replaced the 3 plain string fillisters with hex screws to remove harsh attack characteristics in the same tonal area, which I find a bit odd when comparing the coils in an A/B situation. I just assumed there was a certain amount of summed parts in play :)
 
Re: Screw polepieces vs slug polepieces - tonal different

3 things separate Duncan-style hex poles from traditional fillister screws:

1) Length
2) Material
3) Shape of the magnetic field at the strings
 
Re: Screw polepieces vs slug polepieces - tonal different

I haven’t noticed any string balance issues. And if you angle the pickup farther away on the bass side, it takes care of those strings being too loud.

I’ve never found the screws on a humbucker all that effective. Seth Lover didn’t even want adjustable poles. Just a closed metal cover.


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If you look at both DMZ and Duncan single coil rails they do indeed have a slight curvature to the rails. (obviously made more for strats with lower radius)
I suppose they figure that any full size rail bucker will likely being going into a higher radius "metal" type guitar so they figure the curve isn't needed.

It's not that the bass strings are louder, as you said one can simply lower the bass side of the pickup for that, and most guys run the action higher on the bass side anyways.
The thing is that the inside strings (especially the G and D strings) are so much further from the rails if the rails are flat-style and the guitar's bridge radius is lower (like 12" or below).

If one could see the magnetic field of any pickup that's flat, or any that has the poles set even/flush,,,,,,,they would see an ever-so-slight bubbling-out of the field in the middle area of the pickup due to magnets always having more pull in the center and less on the edges. This fact somewhat negates the need to raise center poles or have a curve to the rails/blades.

My conclusion is that a flat rail actually creates a magnetic field with a radius in the 16-18" range.
In my Prestiges I have a Dimebucker in one and an X2N in the other. Those guitars are like a metric 17" radius and the flat-rails seem to match perfectly from string to string, unlike when I've had them in lower radius guitars where the center strings are always getting jipped a bit.
 
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Re: Screw polepieces vs slug polepieces - tonal different

If you look at both DMZ and Duncan single coil rails they do indeed have a slight curvature to the rails. (obviously made more for strats with lower radius)
I suppose they figure that any full size rail bucker will likely being going into a higher radius "metal" type guitar so they figure the curve isn't needed.

DiMarzio X2N blades are flat on top. They are totally flush with the top of the bobbin. I’ve installed bunches of them.

So is the Dimebucker.

I think it’s a good idea to have a little curvature to them.

I’m always amused that people equate rails with metal music.



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Re: Screw polepieces vs slug polepieces - tonal different

So true on the blade = metal confusion... I love bardens for modern country and its about as anti metal a pup as is podsible.
 
Re: Screw polepieces vs slug polepieces - tonal different

DiMarzio X2N blades are flat on top. They are totally flush with the top of the bobbin. I’ve installed bunches of them.

So is the Dimebucker.

I think it’s a good idea to have a little curvature to them.

I’m always amused that people equate rails with metal music.



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Yes I know the x2n and dimbucker are flat, that was the whole basis of my earlier posts lol.
 
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